Rib white Russian chi harbour

[fireball]

Rib white Russian exiting chi harbour at 1145 on Sunday 13may.

You probably don't read this forum but I'm posting in case you do or someone on here knows you.

I watched your progress - you were heading due south and we were heading north. As it was you wouldve passed down our starboard side a reasonable distance apart. For some reason you suddenly decided to turn to starboard across our bow and the only reason you missed us was because I instructed my helm to turn hard starboard. As it was you passed a fender width away from our port side.

You behaviour was irresponsible and I cannot fathom why you felt it nescersary to do this.

Your rib has a 115hp engine and we were under sail.

 

[Firefly625]

Rib white Russian exiting chi harbour at 1145 on Sunday 13may.

You probably don't read this forum but I'm posting in case you do or someone on here knows you.

I watched your progress - you were heading due south and we were heading north. As it was you wouldve passed down our starboard side a reasonable distance apart. For some reason you suddenly decided to turn to starboard across our bow and the only reason you missed us was because I instructed my helm to turn hard starboard. As it was you passed a fender width away from our port side.

You behaviour was irresponsible and I cannot fathom why you felt it nescersary to do this.

Your rib has a 115hp engine and we were under sail.

..wanting to bump this up,but will just add that IMO this sort of behaviour is intolerable.

 

[fireball]

Thanks

It really was inexcusable, there was loads of water and it wasn't congested at all - nearly as bad as the dinghy race start line set just west of west pole - in direct line to any destination other than Brighton or France.
Why do they do it?!

 

[[2068]]

I'm not condoning what happened, but it could be that the RIB thought that passing down the starboard side would put him too close to middle pole, and left it too late to change sides (poor judgement).

 

[rbcoomer]

Sadly I think the poor judgement is only partly right - even with my limited observations on the water, impatience seems a factor much like on the roads. Seems odd to me given that for most of us we're supposed to be out there for enjoyment! Perhaps he should just have waited a couple of minutes for Fireball to pass rather than cut him up if there was insufficient room on original course?

 

[[2068]]

Slowing down and waiting a minute or so should always be an option if Plan A starts to look dodgy.

 

[rbcoomer]

Slowing down and waiting a minute or so should always be an option if Plan A starts to look dodgy.

Indeed - I do a lot of slowing down and waiting!

 

[fireball]

Er. I have no idea why he suddenly decided to cut across. We were "miles" from the poles. We had passed another sailing boat a couple of boat lengths to our port and the rib didn't cut them up.
In no way was the rib constrained - I drive a rib too as well as race dinghies. There was loads of flat water.

 

[ricky_s]

Er. I have no idea why he suddenly decided to cut across. We were "miles" from the poles. We had passed another sailing boat a couple of boat lengths to our port and the rib didn't cut them up.
In no way was the rib constrained - I drive a rib too as well as race dinghies. There was loads of flat water.

Perhaps he had been cut up so often by sail boats in the harbour that he thought that was accepted behaviour.

Tongue very much in cheek.

 

[benjenbav]

I would guess that it was either a failure to see the yacht (I know, it's the big thing with large white sails and it wasn't operating in stealth mode - but we all make mistakes) or it was a misguided attempt to comply with Colregs by passing portside to portside.

Either way, blimmin annoying for the OP and the only good bit is that, thanks to the crash turn performed by the OP, no one was hurt and no damage was done.

 

[fireball]

I would guess that it was either a failure to see the yacht (I know, it's the big thing with large white sails and it wasn't operating in stealth mode - but we all make mistakes) or it was a misguided attempt to comply with Colregs by passing portside to portside.

Probably the latter - he could hardly fail to see the 50' mast with a stonking great big white mainsail ...

Either way, blimmin annoying for the OP and the only good bit is that, thanks to the crash turn performed by the OP, no one was hurt and no damage was done.

I'm not so bothered about me - I get annoyed at the time - I'm bothered about others that the idiot will put in danger ...
A crash gybe for me only endangers the rig - the boom is well above head height - for others it could be a mayday call with crew member(s) seriously injured ...

 

[DAKA]

Rib white Russian exiting chi harbour at 1145 on Sunday 13may.

You probably don't read this forum but I'm posting in case you do or someone on here knows you.

I watched your progress - you were heading due south and we were heading north. As it was you wouldve passed down our starboard side a reasonable distance apart. For some reason you suddenly decided to turn to starboard across our bow and the only reason you missed us was because I instructed my helm to turn hard starboard. As it was you passed a fender width away from our port side.

You behaviour was irresponsible and I cannot fathom why you felt it nescersary to do this.

Your rib has a 115hp engine and we were under sail.

Could do with a little sketch really in order to understand fully.

It can be tricky in narrow channels where most assume keep right applies.

I'm going to guess that he also thought keep right applied and he was focused on you and one of you or both of you (with your experience I assume it was him more than you) failed to notice the cross current taking you both to the extreme of the channel.

I assume he suddenly realized that he was about to run out of the channel and he was on the wrong side of you.

My only surprise is that you were apparently happy to pass him on the wrong side in a narrow channel without making appropriate contact either by VHF or sound signals.


Please note, I am not attempting to comment on who was right or wrong.
I only post my best guess as I hate it when a raggie cuts me up and I cant figure out the reason and you are usually helpful in giving possible scenarios.

I assume you were sailing parallel to the channel and not at angle or I could soon post plenty more scenarios after witnessing other pilocks doing the same.

 

[fireball]

It can be tricky in narrow channels where most assume keep right applies.

Oh yes - my fault - didn't realise he considered that area to be narrow - despite it not being defined as narrow by the HM - and so much water that it would've taken me a few minutes to cross it ...

If he considered it narrow then WTF wasn't he on the western edge of the channel whilst exiting?!

 

[DAKA]

Oh yes - my fault -

If he considered it narrow then WTF wasn't he on the western edge of the channel whilst exiting?!

Dont beat yourself up about it, read my possible scenario again as I think he also should accept some of the blame..........

He most likely was on the right as he came out, which way was the current going ?

This is not an argument I care about, please dont shoot the messenger, Im just attempting to explain what happened, as you asked , I thought you may be interested so you can take steps to ensure you dont get yourself in the same situation next time.
Suit yourself though, blame the whole mobo forum including me if you think that helps, but I wasnt there, it was just the two of you that had a near miss !

 

[PaulGooch]

Dont beat yourself up about it, read my possible scenario again as I think he also should accept some of the blame..........

What planet are you on today Pete ?

 

[DAKA]

What planet are you on today Pete ?

Over the years Fireball has held me responsible for collisions while I was moored alongside a pontoon !

As far as I can tell @ 1130 -1200 the current was west to east.

Its very easy to leave chichester and focus on Bar beacon.

I would say 70% of boats exiting chichester dont keep an eye astern and find themselves off course with the cross current.

It was low water and I expect the RIBs depth alarm went off and he realized he needed to be the other side of the channel.

Narrow channel, well thats debatable but it is rare that boats pass the wrong side in harbour approach channels isnt it ?

Sorry Andrew, just returning a little fire

cheers
Pete

 

[PaulGooch]

Over the years Fireball has held me responsible for collisions while I was moored alongside a pontoon !

As far as I can tell @ 1130 -1200 the current was west to east.

Its very easy to leave chichester and focus on Bar beacon.

I would say 70% of boats exiting chichester dont keep an eye astern and find themselves off course with the cross current.

It was low water and I expect the RIBs depth alarm went off and he realized he needed to be the other side of the channel.

Narrow channel, well thats debatable but it is rare that boats pass the wrong side in harbour approach channels isnt it ?

Sorry Andrew, just returning a little fire

cheers
Pete

Don't see anything in the above that passes any of the blame onto Firball though Pete

 

[DAKA]

Don't see anything in the above that passes any of the blame onto Firball though Pete

Paul,
apart from picking up on fireballs ' oh yes, my fault '
I didnt blame fireball either.


I only posted a possible scenario on how the incident unfolded.
And how fireball could anticipate it next time.

Its a bit like driving passed an ice cream van and watching out for kids running from behind .

I was berthed in Chichester for years and saw this situation hundreds of times.


If my humour in picking up on fireballs 'admission of guilt' wasnt spotted, sorry !


I'l try harder

 

[DAKA]

Let me start by saying the RIB is in the wrong.

In order to explain how this happened (so everyone can avoid this in future).

i need you to sit in the rib heading out the channel on the right and heading to the fairway pole 2 miles out.

Now keep looking at the pole and keep steering at it.

A sailing boat starts to approach from your port side.
You assume he is motoring as he is entering a channel.
You cant turn right as there is a training wall.
You also know that the sailing boat cant go over the training wall so you keep to the right and expect the sailing boat to tack.


BUT

The side current has moved you 50m left, you are still heading at the fairway pole.

The raggie thinks you are on the wrong side.......YOU ARE but you dont realize that.

You check the chart, its low water , you cant go right as there is a training wall.

You check behind to see if you can spin round, you now notice that you are 50 m off course and the wrong side of the channel...........you follow col regs and pass port to port.


I think sound signals early were the answer, the rib needed to check his position much sooner but we cant do anything about the rib, all we can do is anticipate these clots and be ready for them.


Does everyone follow that or do I need to draw a couple of pictures ?

 

[fireball]

Sorry Andrew, just returning a little fire

Fine

But it isn't a narrow channel ...

the Rib didn't drive a curved course - he was heading straight out then suddenly altered course to cut across our bows...

It should've been obvious we were sailing - we had a sodding great big sail up and no motoring cone. Even if many boats do motor with the sail up - with no cone he should've assumed we were sailing.

Depth alarm where he was? Don't know - I can't say I looked at the depth - we draw 1.45m and I had no issue with coming in at all - I would've thought his 114hp would draw sub 1m at the most ... there were other boats further east of him and several large mobos came through on roughly the same course as his original.
Even so - let's assume his depth alarm did go off and he wanted deeper water - there was plenty of room all around - so why did he alter course onto a collision course with me?