reversing out of my temporary berth, Konsort.

[FairweatherDave]

My berth is the vacant one as you enter between the two large boats and turn to port about three boats down. (Hope you can work it out). I have gone in forwards and I am trying to visualise my exit. The image is "north up" and the predicted wind is a force 4 NNE. Being a Westerly Konsort the boat has a bit of windage and the prop kicks to port in reverse. I have found the boat hard to reverse confidently and I have visions of being unable to get the stern into wind with the port kick being overpowered by the wind, so that I simply drift down wind further away from the exit. I think the current will be negligible.
What is the easiest way to get out?
If I sound inexperienced that is okay, my sailing tends to be off a swinging mooring and I am usually singlehanded. I am just trying to rehearse in my head and on the day will be talking to the yard and getting help if I need it. Thanks for any ideas.

 

[PotatoNavigator]

The wind will take the bow faster than the stern, so you shouldn't have any issue. If you leave your birth and start the turn, the boat will line up with the wind and you can reverse all the way out. By the time you reach the second turn to the right to go between the two big boats you should have enough speed for the wind to not be an issue.

My only concern would be being blown onto your neighbour when casting off.

 

[MM5AHO]

NNE wind and reversing aim is about NW? (If I understand the location right). And propwalk is to port, so that will to some extent work against the NNE wind?
I think I'd be inclined to ease out slowly, still retaining a bow rope to the end of the finger, allowing the wind to catch the stern and drift it to the west. Once that direction is established, release the bow rope and continue, putting a few more revs on, which will cause more swing to port (west), and you should end up heading about NE, parallel to the pontoon main walkway. The you are set to go forward towards the NE, turning to stbd to exit the marina to the SE between the two big boats.
Or did I get the setup wrong?

 

[fireball]

Is it just you, or do you have crew? Which way are you trying to go? Back out or up to the hard?

If I understand your description correctly you'll have the wind on your port quarter - with a port kick in reverse and the bow being blown off then my concern would be contact with the motorboat to your starboard - plenty of fenders on your starboard bow and if you've got crew then a line to the finger pontoon to keep your bow to port until you're clear would be my suggestion ..
If you're trying to get out that could be fun - without knowing your boat it's hard to say, but I would think it would either involve lots of reverse welly and going astern the whole way, or reversing up to the windward pontoon as close as possible before pushing the tiller hard-a-starboard and putting on a good foward thrust to get the boat moving foward and under tiller control. F4 isn't particularly strong breeze and you may get some shelter from other moored boats ...

this coming from someone who cocked up a reverse mooring in Cherbourg during the last Scuttlebut meet he attended ...

 

[doug748]

There will be no trouble getting out, the bow should swing round quickly and you then find yourself in the ally with the stern facing the NE wind and the bow towards the shore. The big question is what do you do next?

If you are confident the boat will reverse cleanly with the wind on the starboard beam, and the bow will not be blown off, you can carry on reversing and the prop walk will help you in the turn.

If you do not trust the reverse job then you could go forward into the blind ally and attempt to turn, using prop walk to help you.

Either way you could be stuffed if the wind is too strong so it is a matter of judgement.

Safest is to get a dinghy to push your bow but it always feels like a defeat as you learn nothing about what you might have done - on the other hand you don't bump into anything either

 

[lw395]

Get some crew!
Work the boat back until it's mid cleat is at the end of the pontoon, then reverse out keeping a line on the bow to the end of the finger as long as possible, it should help to get the bow around.
If really windy, take a line from a finger or two up?

 

[VicS]

My thoughts FWTAW

the bow will tend to blow down wind so if the stern kicks to port reverse out allowing the combined effect of the two to turn you stern into the wind..

I think you will need a crew or helper on the finger pontoon to stop you blowing on to the adjacent boat though ( Put some fenders on the starboard bow)


Ideally then turn on the spot clockwise using bursts of forward and reverse power with the rudder to stbd unless its a manoeuvre you've not done before in a confined space or if the wind is too strong to get the bow into the wind, and depart forwards
Other wise reverse all the way out......... but beware of not keeping enough power on to keep full control.

 

[garvellachs]

With the wind NNE and the boat bow in, so facing SE, port side to, I would aim to reverse all the way out. The bow I expect will tend to weathercock before the stern, so as you reverse out the bow will tend to fall away to windward which is what you want, the port kick will help too. Once the boat is moving she should go where you point the rudder as long as you hold on tight to the tiller. Not too fast, probably tickover once she is moving and steering, bit faster at first as you come out maybe. Plenty of fenders each side and keep up to weather as you pass beween the two big boats. Ideally you want someone to let the bow go smartly for you - from the boat or from the pontoon - and you can slip the stern line at the same time.

 

[adwuk]

With the stern kicking to port and the bow blowing off onto your neighbour, it sounds like fun! If the entrance was bigger, you could reverse out, but it appears quite tight.
I'd suggest rigging a bow slip to the end of the finger and reversing out slowly. The wind should blow the stern round as long as you keep the revs low, and the slip will keep the bow close to the finger. That should get most of the turn, which you can then complete once well out of the berth.
Another option, which will guarantee the turn is to rig a stern slip onto the end of your neighbours (to the SW) finger berth. As you reverse out (prop walk will ensure the line remains taught), the stern will be forced to pivot around and line you up in the middle, all ready to slip the stern line and motor forward. You'd probably still want to start with a bow slip as well to stop the bow drifting off. Just a thought.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Thanks for the replies. I'm not sure I fancy reversing all the way out..... I would have with other boats but I have struggled with the Konsort in reverse, but maybe the wind will be less than the time I had problems...... (I am trying to leave not come ashore.) I like the bow line idea to protect the leeward boat (the yard can help from shore there) and the idea of backing up to the windward pontoon and then going out forwards. Providing I can turn the boat hard to port as I go forward. I did wonder about doing a several point turn (spinning the boat with prop kick)

yikes about 10 more replies...........

 

[JumbleDuck]

My berth is the vacant one as you enter between the two large boats and turn to port about three boats down. (Hope you can work it out). I have gone in forwards and I am trying to visualise my exit. The image is "north up" and the predicted wind is a force 4 NNE. ...
What is the easiest way to get out?

Row across in your dinghy and put a long rope from your port midships cleat, round the cleat at the end of the finger beside the empty berth on the other side, and back to your stern. Use that rope to pull yourself backwards across the gap. When you're almost at the other side, pull the rope through, coil it safely away from your prop, give her a bit of welly and drive out.

 

[niccapotamus]

couple of ideas - get the book stress free sailing by duncan wells as it has loads of great suggestions for getting in and out of berths single handed or short handed

second idea - put a line from your stern to the end cleat of pontoon, (or maybe your neighbours cleat) reverse out, once bows clear snub the line which as the weight comes on it will swing your bows around - you'll need to make sure that the line will run clear and not snag or risk losing it.

third idea is to reverse in - all depends on wind and tide when arriving and leaving I guess

 

[FairweatherDave]

Thanks all. Really useful. Virtual consensus at least that the prop kick will get the stern through the wind. Will let you know how I get on. Circumstances on the day will dictate.
Crew......hmmmm

 

[TangaraToo]

I totally understand your concern. My boat has some very interesting behaviour in reverse, A folding prop that requires full revs to get the blades to open which gives a huge kick to port. It takes around 10-15 seconds to actually get the boat moving backwards so I don't have any breaking effect when going forward either. The prop is going to be changed.
I spent some time a couple of weekend ago practicing handling her when I was in a marina (rare thing for me), using springs it is feasible.
Looking at the exit channel I would also want to be going forward out of the channel as it looks tight on depth.
If you can find a bod to handle a bow line for you then great.
First choice would be to rig a stern spring off the boat to starboard. This will pull the stern round to starboard and should help to keep the bow to port on the initial exit from the berth. Play the stern spring to pull the stern through 90 degrees when you are mid point between the two sets of pontoons. This space is important as the wind will be trying to swing the bow to starboard and if the stern is swung too close to the berth you may well find yourself blown back on to the berth and starboard boat. Once mid point just release stern spring and motor out forwards.
Second choice if no help available.... Rig stern spring to starboard boat and a bow line from cockpit up through your bow fairlead, round pontoon cleat and back to cockpit (line will need to be 3 times length of boat). You can then use this bow line to keep the bow to port as you start to exit the berth. Once bow is clear the bow line cam be pulled back in to boat and carry on as per choice one.
Third choice... rig stern spring to port and bow line. Reverse out of berth controlling bow with bow line, stern will take care of itself initially. You may need to stop/start the initial reverse to allow the stern to blow off against the prop walk. Once bow is clear then reverse using the stern spring to allow you to get clear of berth and position the boat up wind of the berth and approx. a boat length out from pontoon. Then its a multi point turn to starboard using the prop walk to help you.
Remember in all of the options that you will need to do this slowly and be aware of which direction the wind will be pushing the boat. Hence the need to get well clear of the pontoon. Make sure your mooring lines float! A fouled prop would not be good.

The hour or so I spent playing in the marina was extremely useful even if it did provide the sunday morning entertainment.

 

[fireball]

If no crew then you could rig a bow line with both ends finishing in the cockpit ...
I'd still rig those fenders!

 

[flaming]

Row across in your dinghy and put a long rope from your port midships cleat, round the cleat at the end of the finger beside the empty berth on the other side, and back to your stern. Use that rope to pull yourself backwards across the gap. When you're almost at the other side, pull the rope through, coil it safely away from your prop, give her a bit of welly and drive out.

Does anyone who sails a reasonably handy boat like a Konsort ever actually do all this messing about with ropes across the aisles thing in a marina? Seems remarkably unnecessary to me...

If I've got it right the boat is going to weather-cock nicely pointing down the isle, so you've basically already got it swinging the right way to enable you to reverse out, so as soon as it starts swinging just use a medium amount of revs and my guess is that by the time you get to pointing down the isle you'll have plenty of steerage and should be able to complete the turn fine.
If you find that it won't, don't fight it, but bail out by simply going slow ahead and driving straight down the isle, then when you think you've got enough runway to allow you to build steerage in astern go slow astern (to reduce propwalk) and build the speed in reverse whilst using the wind to keep her pointing basically down the isle until you've got steerage way. If you haven't allowed enough runway then go back down the aisle and try again.

In general if you are using the wind to help (i.e weather-cockcing the right way to start with) then it's easy. If you fight it (in this case by trying to spin the boat to drive out forwards) then it gets complicated.

 

[Aeolus]

As has been said, a major risk would be being blown onto the boat to starboard. I would look to get out from the berth as quickly as possible, ideally going straight back (if the prop walk and the wind cancel each other out) and then applying some forwards power and steer hard to port so to exit forwards. If you find the prop walk takes the stern to port and you end up facing south west, then turn the boat round by steering hard to starboard, work the throttle backwards and forwards and you should find that prop walk will turn you round pretty much on the spot.

 

[johnalison]

As has been said, a major risk would be being blown onto the boat to starboard. I would look to get out from the berth as quickly as possible, ideally going straight back (if the prop walk and the wind cancel each other out) and then applying some forwards power and steer hard to port so to exit forwards. If you find the prop walk takes the stern to port and you end up facing south west, then turn the boat round by steering hard to starboard, work the throttle backwards and forwards and you should find that prop walk will turn you round pretty much on the spot.

The trouble might be that although the prop walk might help in turning to port ahead, there might not be enough room if a gust catches the boat. He needs a plan to deal with this situation if he has to bail out. If he wants to initiate this plan, he needs to motor out astern with plenty of power and immediately knock it into neutral, when the boat should steer as he wishes for a short distance. My bail-out might be to let the boat swing round and complete the operation in reverse, but there are several other possibilities.

 

[CFarr]

Does anyone who sails a reasonably handy boat like a Konsort ever actually do all this messing about with ropes across the aisles thing in a marina? Seems remarkably unnecessary to me...

If I've got it right the boat is going to weather-cock nicely pointing down the isle, so you've basically already got it swinging the right way to enable you to reverse out, so as soon as it starts swinging just use a medium amount of revs and my guess is that by the time you get to pointing down the isle you'll have plenty of steerage and should be able to complete the turn fine.
If you find that it won't, don't fight it, but bail out by simply going slow ahead and driving straight down the isle, then when you think you've got enough runway to allow you to build steerage in astern go slow astern (to reduce propwalk) and build the speed in reverse whilst using the wind to keep her pointing basically down the isle until you've got steerage way. If you haven't allowed enough runway then go back down the aisle and try again.

In general if you are using the wind to help (i.e weather-cockcing the right way to start with) then it's easy. If you fight it (in this case by trying to spin the boat to drive out forwards) then it gets complicated.

+1
I learned to not fight the elements some time ago. In fact my first ever post on here was similar to yours after I cocked up trying to get the bow through the wind - but it was an F6.

I would do as Flaming says above. Pop out of the berth quickly though with a good burst of astern, use forward to slow down when you're nearly out and then let her stop and weather cock close to the opposite side (while in neutral if necessary).
It's easy to get the stern through the wind, the bows a different matter, and it's that fact that makes you lose ground downwind and end up zig-zagging down the aisle
If you have a decent forefoot then you might have more grip on the bow to try getting her up to wind but I'd want to be as far upwind as possible before I attempted that (and be ready to bale out if she doesn't round)
Handling a couple of lines while single handed on the helm isn't for me though.

 

[TangaraToo]

I would look to get out from the berth as quickly as possible, ideally going straight back (if the prop walk and the wind cancel each other out

Am I missing something here? I would have thought the prop walk would be taking the stern to port whilst the wind is taking the bow to starboard? Risk of ending up stern to wind and close to pontoon and being blown on with few options. Even if not needed in the end, rigging stern and bow lines gives additional control if needed.