Retire and live aboard

[dunedin]

I guess the tricky bit, financially wise, may not be the regular living costs but the big expenses - which you may or may not have a capital cushion to cover.
Boats depreciate rapidly these days. And major items (sails, electronics, engines even) do tend to need renewals and replacements over time. If retire early than probably already have planned for the initial boat prep. But what happens 10, 20 years or so further down the line when would be tending to do replacement or renewal - but the costs may by then be out of reach. Ditto if sell up house but want to move back ashore - when a 20+ year old heavily used boat is virtually worthless in terms of cash resale value.

Not a reason not to do it (better old and broke than rich and dead!), but a point to ponder. Certainly one reason to keep something like a rental flat as a shore based investment, rather than sinking all funds in a shiny new 50 footer, if these funds do exist today

 

[Sandyman]

What a great post, hope it carries on exactly as you want it to.

Thank You. We have every intention of doing our best to ensure it does.
What I can tell you is that the benefits of our lifestyle compared to living on shore is so great that there is no way we will ever voluntarily give it up. Oh and yes we have planned what we will do when we are to decrepit to continue cruising.

PS. That does not mean anchoring next to Ludd up the Guardiana waiting to die lol.

 

[Tranona]

I guess the tricky bit, financially wise, may not be the regular living costs but the big expenses - which you may or may not have a capital cushion to cover.
Boats depreciate rapidly these days. And major items (sails, electronics, engines even) do tend to need renewals and replacements over time. If retire early than probably already have planned for the initial boat prep. But what happens 10, 20 years or so further down the line when would be tending to do replacement or renewal - but the costs may by then be out of reach. Ditto if sell up house but want to move back ashore - when a 20+ year old heavily used boat is virtually worthless in terms of cash resale value.

Not a reason not to do it (better old and broke than rich and dead!), but a point to ponder. Certainly one reason to keep something like a rental flat as a shore based investment, rather than sinking all funds in a shiny new 50 footer, if these funds do exist today

A quick trip round the marinas and boatyards of the Med will confirm what you say. Many, many boats languishing there, often for sale, because they are worn out after 10-15 years of "liveaboard". Decay catching up with both owners and boats. Significant sums required to bring boats back to functioning order.

 

[Sandyman]

A quick trip round the marinas and boatyards of the Med will confirm what you say. Many, many boats languishing there, often for sale, because they are worn out after 10-15 years of "liveaboard". Decay catching up with both owners and boats. Significant sums required to bring boats back to functioning order.

We see many such boats. I wonder how many of them were liveaboards & not just weekend type sailors? The commitment to a liveaboard lifestyle means also a commitment to maintaining your boat, your home, in a fit & seaworthy condition.
A true liveaboard who does not do so, I would suggest is:
1) Lacking in skills/ability.
2) Lacking in money
3) To lazy to be bothered.

 

[ip485]

Well hope to do this next year so we will see. Its taken a couple of years to get the boat ready. Almost certainly very little of the work was required, but hopefully it will make living aboard much more comfortable. We shall see. Even though the boat is not that old, most of the vital systems will have been overhauled and/or serviced, so I am hoping not too much breaks, but expecting the worst. The time has also been spent accumulating a reasonable number of spares -its amazing how many items there are. Again it will be interesting to see how many are used. The time has also been spent with a few longer cruises which have proved what works and what doesnt - I hope.

As to cost - who knows, that again will be interesting. This thread is fascinating in that it sets some upper and lower limits of what is possible. For me I hope part of the joy will be visiting different places, not just places where you can park the boat, but perhaps spending some time inland. I therefore am well aware that a significant part of the budget will be spent on marina fees.

We are in no rush so will take our time. I enjoy sailing, but for me its about the places cruising enables you to visit - to stop within reason for as long as you wish and to move on as quickly as you wish.

Maybe a couple of years will be long enough, perhaps it will be longer, or perhaps we will hate it. However we are lucky in that we will not relinquish our land base, but the intention will be to spend as little time there as possible.

The one aspect that has surprised me is how much there is to sort out, both emotionally and logistically. It is all too easy to give up on the dream, but then you say to yourself, sod it, just do it and its surprising with a will how quickly things will fall into place - well that is the theory :--}

 

[Sandyman]

''We are in no rush so will take our time. I enjoy sailing, but for me its about the places cruising enables you to visit - to stop within reason for as long as you wish and to move on as quickly as you wish.''

Exactly. No need to rush anywhere. To us that's one of the best advantages of our lifestyle. When we departed Falmouth in July 12 our aim was to sail down the French coast, along N Spain then W coast of Portugal to be on the Algarve before winter set in. Didn't happen. The experience & enjoyment was so beyond anything we had imagined that it took us the best part of 2 years to reach Lagos.
At this rate we might just make the Caribbean by 2025 lol.

 

[Tranona]

We see many such boats.
1) Lacking in skills/ability.
2) Lacking in money
3) To lazy to be bothered.

Don't think it is necessarily any of these. My experience is mainly in the eastern Med, so the owners have done quite a bit to get there (if they started in N Europe).

As you have seen from these threads there are probably very few people who have done what you have, but are more likely to have taken to living aboard for a relatively short period, often post retirement from work and before getting "old". Inevitably there comes a point where the lifestyle starts to lose its appeal, or poor health intervenes, or the boat starts becoming too much for available resources.

As you say yourself, "real" liveaboard by your definition requires a high level of commitment and very few people really have that.

 

[GHA]

Don't think it is necessarily any of these. My experience is mainly in the eastern Med, so the owners have done quite a bit to get there (if they started in N Europe).

As you have seen from these threads there are probably very few people who have done what you have, but are more likely to have taken to living aboard for a relatively short period, often post retirement from work and before getting "old". Inevitably there comes a point where the lifestyle starts to lose its appeal, or poor health intervenes, or the boat starts becoming too much for available resources.

As you say yourself, "real" liveaboard by your definition requires a high level of commitment and very few people really have that.

That sounds like such a very different picture from the Atlantic. With marinas being few and far between . South America a lot of boats will have come up from South Africa, even the Caribbean most boats will be in good shape through necessity. Trips home being a rarity. Lots of circumnavigators around.

Never did fancy the Med much

 

[Tranona]

That sounds like such a very different picture from the Atlantic. With marinas being few and far between . South America a lot of boats will have come up from South Africa, even the Caribbean most boats will be in good shape through necessity. Trips home being a rarity. Lots of circumnavigators around.

Never did fancy the Med much

Just illustrates the diversity of the "liveaboard" or "ocean cruising" scene. Much of the Med is populated mainly by extended holiday makers using a wide range of strategies to get a period in the sun. Short holidays, extended holidays, syndicate ownership, periods of adventure between jobs or between working, semi retirement etc etc. Many boats have non resident owners and pressures at home often means they fall out of use, become difficult to sell and then decay probably much more quickly than if closer to home.

Provides a great opportunity for those with smaller budgets and a willingness to catch a boat before it gets terminal. Trouble is, they might then have the same problem a few years down the line.

 

[GHA]

Provides a great opportunity for those with smaller budgets ...

Actually, not so sure about that being the only opportunity, there are lots of boats out there having a great time on what many would consider as abject poverty. To generalize the key might be near total self sufficiency.

 

[KellysEye]

> No, you didn't HAVE to buy a generator---you CHOSE to buy a generator! Likewise the awlgrip. How did you manage to spend £1250 a month?!

Our generator broke near the end of our passage over the Atlantic it had a cracked cylinder and we could use it we kept filling it with water but wasn't worth reparing. It was a 3,000 rpm one that has a life 500 to 700 hours was at 550. Also as I said we had a 240 volt fridge and watermaker, which I mentioned, so we did need a new generator this time 1,500 rpm one lifed at 8,000 hours. The reason we repainted the boat was we had the teak decks removed because a steel deck and teak on it risks rust on the deck that you can't see. Thus we had to paint the deck and the hull paint was getting scruffy so we did that too. On the money front we spent a lot on spares and replacements because everything except electronics will break more than once. I used to spend two days a week on either maintenance or fixing something. Also we ate out regulary as a treat. Most boat's monthly spend is what they can afford and we could afford what we spent because the rent of a house and a flat in London, which I also mentioned, covered it. It was a lot less than we spent when dirt dwellers earning lots of money.

 

[ip485]

It was a 3,000 rpm one that has a life 500 to 700 hours was at 550.

I think it is worth pointing out (albeit without knowing what make you had) that many 3,000 rpm Genset are lifed for 10,000 hours and this would be normal even (for say) the "proper" FP Gensets. I thought about replacing mine with a 1,500 rpm Genset mostly because I thought they would be quieter and more reliable. I went around all the manufacturers at SBS and to be fair even though it might have suited them to say otherwise no-one claimed there 1,500 rpm Genset would be significantly quieter or have a much greater life expectancy. To be fair mine has been very reliable but I feel maintenance cant be ignored.

Am I wrong in the conclusions I have reached?

 

[BobnLesley]

"...what happens 10, 20 years or so further down the line...if sell up house but want to move back ashore...when a 20+ year old heavily used boat is virtually worthless in terms of cash resale value..Not a reason not to do it...but a point to ponder. Certainly one reason to keep something like a rental flat as a shore based investment, rather than sinking all funds in a shiny new 50 footer, if these funds do exist today..."

I tend to agree; whilst commending Sandyman for his enthusiasm/opinions and in many respects following them ourselves, I suspect that after three years spent along the Europe's Atlantic Coast, he has yet to see the darker side of the liveaboard lifestyle. The places that we've most often seen this darker side are the eastern Med, southern end of the Antiles and Florida; all of which are at the down wind/current/tide end of their respective cruising grounds. We've met many (though I doubt few would admit it, perhaps even to themselves?) livaboards who are no longer necessarily enjoying the lifestyle, but simple economics preclude any alternative. I suspect that the oft-heard theory of selling everything ashore to finance a boat which will ultimately be re-sold to finance a new property purchase, has never worked for any who've lived the dream for more than a couple of years; it certainly isn't feasible nowadays.

Like Sandyman, I too can't contemplate our not maintaining/using our boat, but I think it inaccurate to brand all those who don't as being 'lazy'. Fixing up a boat and sailing her home would be no problem today; but I suspect that the type of passages and degree of boat-maintenance that I too can do unaided, will be significantly reduced in another twenty or thirty years. So that re-fitting work would then probably require professional labour to do it - not something allowed in many people's budgets - and after that, it's only a small minority of seventy and eighty year olds who're still capable or perhaps interested in undertaking a long upwind passage back 'home' and why go anyway? Property inflation would preclude any move back ashore anyway if it relied upon the boat's residual value. The best (only?) remaining option is to tuck yourself up in a sheltered, warm and inexpensive corner whilst both you and the boat slowly deteriorate.

 

[Wansworth]

Reminded me of a couple I knew who in their late seventies where still active sailing their home.Unfortunately there was a mountain of work to do and keeping the boat seaworthy was becoming an uphill struggle so they tended to stay at anchor and reduce wear and tear,alround.

 

[KellysEye]

> I think it is worth pointing out (albeit without knowing what make you had) that many 3,000 rpm Genset are lifed for 10,000 hours and this would be normal even (for say) the "proper" FP Gensets.

When we replaced our generator in Martinique the owner of the sales and repair company told me about the life of 3,000 and 1,500 rpm generators. Fisher Panda was the most popular 3,000 rpm generator but used dissimilar metals, his workshop was littered with broken FP's, waiting to be scrapped. No engine is lifed to 10,000 hours modern diesel engines are 8,000 hours. The only things that didn't have a life were engines like the Volvo MD series. I once asked Volvo how much a new engine would cost if it was built to the same quality of an MD and they said £15,000. Our broken 3,000 rpm generator was a Lombardini.

 

[dabsolute470]

What a great read this has been and making us more sure we will live on our boat, we will stay with our motor boat and prob do the canal and river systems.
need to look into depths and heights for the canal down to the med

 

[rotrax]

> I think it is worth pointing out (albeit without knowing what make you had) that many 3,000 rpm Genset are lifed for 10,000 hours and this would be normal even (for say) the "proper" FP Gensets.

When we replaced our generator in Martinique the owner of the sales and repair company told me about the life of 3,000 and 1,500 rpm generators. Fisher Panda was the most popular 3,000 rpm generator but used dissimilar metals, his workshop was littered with broken FP's, waiting to be scrapped. No engine is lifed to 10,000 hours modern diesel engines are 8,000 hours. The only things that didn't have a life were engines like the Volvo MD series. I once asked Volvo how much a new engine would cost if it was built to the same quality of an MD and they said £15,000. Our broken 3,000 rpm generator was a Lombardini.

Your statement that modern diesel engines are only have an 8000 hour life will come as a shock to many charter companies whose Yanmar and Volvo units regularly double this................

 

[Tranona]

Your statement that modern diesel engines are only have an 8000 hour life will come as a shock to many charter companies whose Yanmar and Volvo units regularly double this................

As you have probably discovered if you read his posts regularly he has some very fixed ideas that do not stand up to scrutiny, nor is he prepared to accept that he might be wrong, so trots them out at every opportunity.

Best to ignore.

 

[KellysEye]

>Your statement that modern diesel engines are only have an 8000 hour life will come as a shock to many charter companies whose Yanmar and Volvo units regularly double this................

Yanmar engines are the most reliable and are the least repaired, no other engines comes close. So it it wouldn't surprise me if they get over 8,000 hours because charter conmpanies maintain their engines properly. However charter companies usually sell and replace their boats after 4 to 5 years so the boats are unlikely to have a huge amount of engine hours. Many sit on the dock most of the time, hence the companies need www.latesail.com Also can you name the charter companies with Yanmar engines that have run over 8,000 hours?

 

[Sandyman]

I tend to agree; whilst commending Sandyman for his enthusiasm/opinions and in many respects following them ourselves, I suspect that after three years spent along the Europe's Atlantic Coast, he has yet to see the darker side of the liveaboard lifestyle. The places that we've most often seen this darker side are the eastern Med, southern end of the Antiles and Florida; all of which are at the down wind/current/tide end of their respective cruising grounds. We've met many (though I doubt few would admit it, perhaps even to themselves?) livaboards who are no longer necessarily enjoying the lifestyle, but simple economics preclude any alternative. I suspect that the oft-heard theory of selling everything ashore to finance a boat which will ultimately be re-sold to finance a new property purchase, has never worked for any who've lived the dream for more than a couple of years; it certainly isn't feasible nowadays.

Like Sandyman, I too can't contemplate our not maintaining/using our boat, but I think it inaccurate to brand all those who don't as being 'lazy'. Fixing up a boat and sailing her home would be no problem today; but I suspect that the type of passages and degree of boat-maintenance that I too can do unaided, will be significantly reduced in another twenty or thirty years. So that re-fitting work would then probably require professional labour to do it - not something allowed in many people's budgets - and after that, it's only a small minority of seventy and eighty year olds who're still capable or perhaps interested in undertaking a long upwind passage back 'home' and why go anyway? Property inflation would preclude any move back ashore anyway if it relied upon the boat's residual value. The best (only?) remaining option is to tuck yourself up in a sheltered, warm and inexpensive corner whilst both you and the boat slowly deteriorate.

Greetings BobnLesley

I get the impression that you are confusing my enthusiasm/opinions with what you seem to perceive as a lack of experience. How I wish it was only down to high spirits & youthful exuberance lol. You are indeed following in my footsteps, all be it many years later, so I think you will understand when I say I have seen the ''dark side'', as you call it lol. I love the sea & I love this lifestyle & the fact is, I am as enthusiastic about it today as I was when I first l first went to sea back in 1971 as a 16 year old. Like you we have seen many people in the circumstance you describe but that is all irrelevant to us. We have no intention of ever wanting to make a homeward passage because we have nothing to ''go home'' for. All as planned.
You speak of finances. Peoples lives & the decisions they make today are all based on money. Again irrelevant to us. We have planned for later in life but don't worry about the future.
It was not my intention to brand all people who do not keep up with maintenance as lazy. We both know the state & condition a boat quickly gets into at sea when not cared for and we will have both seen the boats that look like a pikeys back yard. These are the people that annoy me. But hey ho its their lives.
I have always looked on life like this:
1) Anything in life worth doing is worth doing well or not at all.
2) You only get out of life what you put into it.
3) There are no pockets in shrouds.
Seems to have served me very well.