Rescue hovercraft introduced by Red Cross

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NorthUp

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Why?
Are the MCA or RNLI going to start training first aid to the public?
The Red Cross have aquired a 'rescue boat' in Inverness a year or two ago, again why?
If additional resources are required in the area does it not make more sense for the existing conventional emergency services to be upgraded instead of adding another layer of bureaucracy.
Is somebody building an empire?
 
You can just imagine the conversation in the red cross office.

"our fundraising has been far too sucessful this year, we've got pots of money"

"Oh good, I've always wanted a hovercraft...."
 
So they have one hovercraft for use "in floodwater clogged with debris"? I wonder where it will be stationed, along with trained crew so that it is ready for the next floods?

Perhaps they know something we don't - DON'T BUY A HOUSE IN CROMARTY!
 
Don't knock it, better than nothing at all surely???
Lets hope you don't need it in that area.

And on a point they won't be only indepedant Life boat crew around these shores. Caister as a case in point.
 
I'll declare an interest as I have a previous involvement with the organisation in question, (albeit not in Inverness, and not actively recently).

As AdrianCox says - there are plenty of Independent Lifeboats - where the RNLI has not identified a local need but others have. Why should the Red Cross not be able to do that as easily as any other group of people.

In my experience people don't build empires in the BRC by doing things differently from the rest of the country - so its almost certainly not that (if you want to build empires you buy ambulances, defibrilators, training rooms etc - and conform to the "traditional stereotype" of what the BRC does). However there is probably one or two people who have a specific interest in boats or swift water rescue who are leading it - just as there would be in any organisation with a special initiative.

The BRC certainly wouldn't get upset if the RNLI start training the public in first aid, just as they don't get upset by the RYA doing it! The MCGA have been involved in training the BRC volunteers. But I think you are taking a simplistic view of what the Red Cross does. Its role is to provide Humanitarian Care in a Crisis. That means all sorts of things including first aid (including at major incidents), lending wheel chairs, responding to people who are made temporarily homeless by fires etc. In other countries the red cross can run the main water and mountain rescue services etc too.

The organisation works by assessing and identifying local needs and where it thinks it can respond to them putting provision in place. The north of scotland has suffered a number of floods in recent history and the BRC has been involved in staffing rest centres for those evacuated as a result.

Flooding is a serious risk across the UK which is demanding an increasing amount of attention from the Voluntary Aid Societies including the BRC. The flood rescue boat in inverness is not a lifeboat used for routine coastal rescues - it is primarily intended for rescues in floodwater (etc). That is the exact opposite from a traditional lifeboat (which is intended for coastal rescue but would of course be deployed inland if needed and practical).

Why inverness/cromarty... this has been identified as a particular risk for flooding, which is poorly serviced with other suitable rescue boats for evacuations etc. I think the closest d-class lifeboat is in Aberdeen. Atlantic 75/85s aren't ideally suited to floods.

In terms of conventional emergency services doing the job. (1) the responsibility for flood rescue in Scotland falls to the Fire Service. The responsibility for rescue in inland water falls to the police. (and there are all sort of issues relating to this!). the fire service will already be stretched by a flood in this part of the world - and relies heavily on retained crews in this area who would all need to "cross train" in fire fighting and water rescue. The MCGA and RNLI do not technically have a "responsibility/remit" for floods. (2) the BRC will be working in close cooperation with the existing services and may even have been asked/invited to do this by them (3) if the RNLI are rescuing people inland - who is covering their station at sea?

As for a hovercraft - it does seem a totally logical vessel for this type of work. No draft restrictions, no issues with tree trunks damaging the prop, easy to cross high land between areas of water.

Although based in Inverness (and so most likely to be deployed in the north of Scotland) teams and equipment were sent from Inverness to the midlands in last years major floods.
 
Perhaps the RNLI could take a leaf out of their book and sponsor a strategically placed helicopter. They seem to have plenty of dosh to build sumptuous club houses masquerading as boat houses.
 
Hi RIB, and welcome to the forum. You will now be able to experience the unusual blend of dislike that some people on here have for SAR services, combined with a staggering level of ignorance of how the services actually all fit together. Don't worry though, there's a lot of sane ones as well :-)

In response to the OP, how is this "a new layer of beaurocracy" ? The taxpayer isn't being asked to fund it, and rescue hovercraft have a proven role around the UK - RNLI and independent as well as fire service.

Some on here would moan terribly about the "cost" of a rescue facility - not enough calls, duplication of resources...posh boathouse...close it down etc. The same people would then squeal like stuck pigs if something happened to them and the nearest resource was an hour away...

I am intrigued though about the choice of a hovercraft. Mud rescue, ice rescue, yes brilliant - but please NOT for flood operations, especially at night. They really are not suitable - drop me a PM if you want to discuss further.

But good luck to the team and well done for the initiative.
 
Hi Brendan,
Flood rescue is one of my specialities - I spent a lot of time in the States last year (after our July floods) looking at their flood and swiftwater operations - many small town fire stations have a hovercraft, especially in colder areas, as well as a swiftwater / urban flood rescue team. The two tend to be kept well apart.
There are two distinct areas to flood rescue - still or slow moving water bodies, normally found during the second phase of a flooding incident when the water rise has stabilised or the rate of rise decreased (think days 3-5 out of the 5 day Gloucs floods). During this phase there is very little "rescue" requirement - the immediate responses have usually been met, and the vast majority of evacuations completed.
It's the day 1 - 3 phase where rescue assets are needed - and this is where the most dangerous risks occur. Waters are fast flowing, rising rapidly and full of debris - visible and hidden. It's also why I cringe whenever I see ribs or inflatables being used in these conditions - they're simply not up to the job.
My main concerns re hovercraft revolve around the same issues - some of the conditions we were operating in during the Gloucs events included whole trees being flushed down narrow streets, being overtaken by floating skips, and people and animals in a high state of distress.
As I see it, hovercrafts' main drawbacks compared to say an alimunium hulled rescue boat are :
Very noisy, with a vast debris/spray plume around them - meaningful communication with the casualty would be almost impossible especially on the in-run,
Not space efficient - a large part of the craft is taken up with engines, controls etc leaving a relatively small casualty / crew platform
Unstable in the event of engine failure and difficult to repair on scene
Heavy investment needed in the larger ones for specialist transport equipment, although fire services could develop a pod for their demountable HGVs
Far higher crew training issues than with a conventional boat
Not suitable for urban / close quarters operations
Difficult to get casualties onto - in Gloucs, we were able to get people out of houses by ladder by driving the boat hard up to the building and powering on - can't see how this would work with a hovercraft.
Yes, they'd be OK for open areas of water - but then my worry would be semi-submerged debris. For example, a tree with a few wraps if barbed wire around it in a floodplain field - driven carefully, an alimunium boat will bounce off, not sure about how a hovercraft would fare. In fact, I've seen how it would fare during a demo in the States - and it isn't pretty!
As for the other "flood" situation, people trapped in weirs, etc, this is a whole different skillset and usually best tackled with an unpowered, "technical rescue" type response.
To give you an idea, for flood response this is the best option :
http://www.rescueone.com (also very cost effective as it can do so much more - shame about the "Magnum" lookalikes on the demo video!) or for weirs, rivers and pure "swiftwater" rescue, this is best : http://landandmarine.co.uk/userfiles/SWRRFLY.001%20-%20E-mail.pdf

Hope this answers your interest!

Simon
 
[ QUOTE ]
Hi RIB, and welcome to the forum. You will now be able to experience ...


[/ QUOTE ]thanks for the welcome. I come and go occassionally - mostly lurking rather than posting, but tend not to visit too regulalry because I don't like the forum software etc but thats for another thread!
 
Channelyacht - you are closer to the application than me. You will be pleased to hear then that their other boat is a polytheylene rotomolded lump (a Pioneer I think). It is being kept and I guess these will be complimentary. So if there is deep water the boat will probably be the preference - you rightly point out that hover craft have "interesting" handling characteristics.

I don't think these guys are getting involved in the technical rescue side of things - people trapped in weirs etc - and are mainly evacuating casualties, moving personnel etc.

they also have a small fleet of modified 4x4s and at least one quad bike intended for working in shallow water/mud where traditional emergency service vehicles can't reach.

they are certainly not infallable and it will be interesting to see how they get on with it.
 
Hi,

This particular hovercraft (Red Cross - Inverness) is a commercial leisure craft - it is NOT a rescue craft and as such, is totally unsuitable IMHO for the purpose. It can carry two persons within it's operational envelope making it completely useless for personnel rescue. It is based on an very old design that has been "tarted-up" to be marketed at the 'Jet-ski' generation. Unfortunately, the rescue services seem to be easily persuaded to spend money on hovercraft like this (I'm not saying that all the craft out there are bad - just that the buying decisions seem to be based on ignorance).

Modern Hovercraft are no longer noisy, wet or difficult to control. I do agree that they are not suitable for debris-infested flood water rescue - there is no craft that can safely handle collisions with large tree trunks and other big objects

In terms of space efficiency, I operate an 18ft craft that has a 10x6ft completely open and flat cabin area (in addition to side and front storage compartments - all of the craft width and 14ft of the 18ft length is usable space) - far better than a lot of boats!

I don't understand the "unstable" comment either - when off-hover they are essentially flat bottomed boats (very small draft and highly stable in pitch and roll)

They do require "different" training to normal boat operation but they aren't hard to operate with practice. The basic rule for operating over any kind of surface is that "if there isn't anything sticking up then you can drive over it" works well. Sub-surface debris or water depth is of no concern

There is a hovercraft under development that allows casualties to be "loaded" without coming off-cushion and under full control. With this design, it is possible to "park" the nose of the craft onto a bridge abutment in fast flowing river rapids and safely rescue someone.

The two links you posted are also unsuitable flood rescue craft IMHO - the inflatable raft could not be manipulated or held in position in the middle of a 15knot river rapid (unless you can paddle really quickly /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif ) and the aluminium hulled rescue, boat, whilst having a shallow draft, has an outboard which is vulnerable to damage and limits shallow water operation to probably 16 inches.
 
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