Request for feedback on Cobra 1050. =)

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seng

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Hi!

We are planning for a round Pacific voyage sometime in 2014; starting off from Singapore>Hong Kong>Japan>Hawaii> Pacific Islands>New Zealand>Australia>Singapore.

Currently looking at a Cobra 1050 for sale. Tried searching on the next for more details, but unable to find much. Thus would like to check if anyone could advise her performance, any potential issues to look out for and if she is suitable to such a voyage?

Very much thanks in advance!
 
The Cobra's were built with both fin and bilge keels. I'd not recommend either for the sort of passage you're proposing. As a UK Sailor, I'd advise looking For a Rustler 32, a Contessa 32 or a Nicholson 32, all well founded long keel yachts with an ocean going pedigree.

There are US and continental yachts which would also match your needs.
 
NorSea would be my choice :D Cobra is another vacation boat for the sunny Mediterranean (or Florida)
But 50 k bit too much...
Why not fly to US, buy a boat of choice - in California they used to have lots of strong, seaworthy boats, very cheaply - for some 20 k and go from there? Or look in Australia - heard good buys are there.
 
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Hi Topcat47,

Are there specific reason(s) that you would not recommend Cobra's for Pacific Ocean passages?
Was thinking could it be due to the stability characteristics of Cobra (i am looking at the bilge keel version that is available); or whether the design of the boat itself is meant for coastal sailing rather than Ocean crossings.

As for other vessels available, unfortunately, the resale market in Asia is smaller and not a lot of them fits into our budget. The cost of buying one from UK/Europe or US is actually cheaper, but we do not have the time to fly about to check out the boats. So checking each boat as they come out on offer.


Topcat47 said:
The Cobra's were built with both fin and bilge keels. I'd not recommend either for the sort of passage you're proposing. As a UK Sailor, I'd advise looking For a Rustler 32, a Contessa 32 or a Nicholson 32, all well founded long keel yachts with an ocean going pedigree.

There are US and continental yachts which would also match your needs.
Click to expand...
 
Then I will add: Twin keels are for standing on drying mooring - it's the only reason for them. Usually they have less stability and more drag then similar boat with fin keel.
Fin keel is not convenient for down wind work on high seas (I imagine you would go northern route from Japan, hard going), it lacks directional stability. Typical for this use is NorSea keel configuration; if finkeel - then longer, and rudder on substantial skeg. Like mentioned Contessa, for instance.
I don't know Cobra as such, other then looked over many boats here while shopping. May as well be able to do this voyage. But I know a man who did trip from Japan to Hawai on finkeeler of similar type - succesfully, but quite a hardship, wasn't happy with this configuration.

Middle of the night here, btw :) You will get more comments, and more to the point later, I believe.
 
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Rossynant said:
Then I will add: Twin keels are for standing on drying mooring - it's the only reason for them. Usually they have less stability and more drag then similar boat with fin keel.
Fin keel is not convenient for down wind work on high seas (I imagine you would go northern route from Japan, hard going), it lacks directional stability. Typical for this use is NorSea keel configuration; if finkeel - then longer, and rudder on substantial skeg. Like mentioned Contessa, for instance.
I don't know Cobra as such, other then looked over many boats here while shopping. May as well be able to do this voyage. But I know a man who did trip from Japan to Hawai on finkeeler of similar type - succesfully, but quite a hardship, wasn't happy with this configuration.

Middle of the night here, btw :) You will get more comments, and more to the point later, I believe.
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Hi Rossynant,

Thanks for your input and suggestions. Looks like you spotted my other post on comparison with the Norsea. :)

Due to budget and work commitments, flying to US/Europe or OZ/NZ for boat hunting and subsequent freight back to Singapore is not possible. As for sailing off from US West Coast, the idea had crossed our minds, however, the risks far outweighs the financial savings.
To mitigate such risks, we want to sail as much as possible on ourboat, know her inside out before proceeding with the Pacific voyage. Thus we are restricted to looking at the small resale (and more expensive, and with less choices) market in Asia.

Thanks for the feedback on lack of directional stability on twin keel boats (though should be still faster than the Norsea) and possible weakness on the rudder skeg.

On our minds: With the same budget, the Cobra 1050 would be more spacious, comfortable and possibly faster than the Norsea 27. With the 35-40 days from Japan to Hawaii (assuming 100 mile days on Norsea, hopefully more on Cobra :)), the additional space for provisions could prove to be very useful.

In short, we are deciding between a proven Norsea 27 vs a bigger Cobra 1050. Plenty of information on the Norsea, but finding data on Cobra 1050 on the net proved to be very difficult. So the next best option is to hear from the experienced folks. :D
 
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While many on here will say you need an old fashioned long keel boat for ocean passages the reality is that most ocean passages are undertaken in boats that are NOT of that type.

The Cobra is a very substantial boat designed by a very experienced and well known designer. If it is in good condition and suitably equipped there is no reason why it should not complete the passage - assuming you are up to it as well! It might not be the ideal choice, but you can rarely get that. It will be safe and have reasonable sailing performance. The bilge keels are very carefully designed and the boats perform well compared with earlier twin keel designs. Cobras as a class are well regarded in the UK, although most are of the smaller sizes and few of the 1050 were built. David Feltham the designer also designed many of the Mirage boats and for a long time was the chief designer for Prout catamarans.

Most important thing is to check out that the boat is sound as it will be getting on in years and may have been home completed. However, don't think there are any inherent weaknesses in the basic design and construction.

Prepare it well and enjoy the trip.

ps If it is anything like the one in the link above well worth considering - that has managed to sail all the way out to Malaysia so has proved its capability.
 
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dgadee said:
Here's one for sale which asserts more stability from twin keels:

http://cobra1050forsale.webs.com/

I'm never sure whether those who comment on twin keels have ever sailed boats with them.
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Some did, albeit not much :o.
Don't know of Cobra, as said, this was general comment, explaining the earlier comment of someone else.
Some boats had less stability (mostly less AVS) in bilge keel version than in fin, but this is not caused by bilge keel arrangement as such, only because of seeking much smaller draft with same ballast weight. "More stability" on bilgekeeler at sea would rather mean she is less rolling in seaway, this comes from more damping offered by two side keels than one deep, like those roll dampers on passenger ships.

Perfectly possible for bilge keeler to be designed with same stability, so as Tranona said this one is - may be good choice. Big enough for comfortable cruise.
I am another one to say that OP should just look for the boat that suits his needs at right price and right condition. No reason to buy too small a boat for too much :)
 
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Yup, such was my first thought. But.
In this particular situation: small Norsea 27 - and she is cramped boat, rather narrow - for a lot more than big Cobra. I can quite understand the OP's dilemma :)
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994/Nor'sea-27-2520298/Singapore

Moreover OP will sail mainly his area and Polynesia, the only hard bit will be from Japan. Boat (Cobra that is) can manage this part, and will be more comfortable for living aboard on the rest of cruising.
 
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Rossynant said:
Yup, such was my first thought. But.
In this particular situation: small Norsea 27 - and she is cramped boat, rather narrow - for a lot more than big Cobra. I can quite understand the OP's dilemma :)
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1994/Nor'sea-27-2520298/Singapore

Moreover OP will sail mainly his area and Polynesia, the only hard bit will be from Japan. Boat (Cobra that is) can manage this part, and will be more comfortable for living aboard on the rest of cruising.
Click to expand...

Wow. Nice detective work. :) The challenging part will be the Japan>Hawaii leg; and possibly the Pac Isles to New Zealand; and that stretch between NZ and OZ.
 
V1701 said:
Might it be feasible to widen your search to Thailand?

If so one of these? You have to register to view full details...

Pearson Vanguard 33
Neptunian 33

Beneteau Evasion 34
Islander Bahama 30
Click to expand...

We had considered all 4 plus a couple more from Phuket and had viewed 2 of the 4 actually.
With the viewing, we realised that boats that are 'neglected' deteriorates pretty quickly, so the cost of getting them back to seaworthyness may be quite substantial.
So currently, it is between the Cobra and Norsea. Unless something better pops up. =)
 
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seng said:
Hi Topcat47,

Are there specific reason(s) that you would not recommend Cobra's for Pacific Ocean passages?
Was thinking could it be due to the stability characteristics of Cobra (i am looking at the bilge keel version that is available); or whether the design of the boat itself is meant for coastal sailing rather than Ocean crossings.

As for other vessels available, unfortunately, the resale market in Asia is smaller and not a lot of them fits into our budget. The cost of buying one from UK/Europe or US is actually cheaper, but we do not have the time to fly about to check out the boats. So checking each boat as they come out on offer.
Click to expand...

I see you've already had a pretty sound precis of my opinions regarding the Cobra. There is not much else to add. I have sailed in one, and it's a large, comfortable boat in which I'd happily cruise european waters. It doesn't "point" particularly well, but anyone intending serious voyaging would not chose to beat long distances so this may not be an issue and it does "slam" in a chop which was tiring over a 24hour period at sea. Bilge keelers can make trans oceanic passages, and the cobra was strongly built at the time. I'd not chose one for the journey you propose, nor even the fin version. I'd prefer a long keel or "fin & skeg" hence the boats I suggested.
 
I know this boat, it's been well maintained. It's here in Malaysia, having sailed from the Med, so there are no worries about it's trans ocean capabilities and it has been fitted out for cruising already, with a wind vane etc.

You get a lot of living space and storage for this size of boat, and most of your time will be spent in ports anyway.

There are a lot of failed dreams here in Asia, and a lot of abandoned and neglected boats. This one isn't any of those things.
 
Thanks everyone for your valuable input. We would be making a decision soon and hopefully start sailing soon!
 
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