reposessed boat

[Observer]

I would have thought a boat with finance or that is repossessed is about as good as you can get without knowing the full history. Surely that means someone's done the work to sort out the finance, or am I using false logic?

Qualified agreement. Buying "a boat with finance" is only potentially helpful if it had been pledged as security for the finance. Then it is probable that the lender's original due diligence had established good title and, as long as the finance is paid off, that the seller has good/unencumbered title to transfer (however note the possibility of a second (unregistererd) charge that post-dates the original).

Buying a repossessed boat is even better. The purchaser will be protected by Sale of Goods Act and the seller (acting in the course of a business), if dealing with a consumer, will not be able to exclude the implied condition that he has good/unencumbered title. From memory, Deleted User bought a repossessed boat from a finance co and another finance co subsequently claimed an interest in it that was not previously known to the seller. Mike was able to beat off the claim because the seller could not avoid liability to transfer good/unencumbered title. I believe Mike was able to rely on a specific warranty inserted into the contract by his lawyer. However, I think the result would have been the same anyway, because of SoGA.

 

[plato-gb]

Question re Greek deletion to Tranona

Thats interesting. As you may remember, I bought my boat in Greece and my Bill of Sale uses the term "free from incumbrances (sic)". I also have a Certificate of Boats Proprietary Title from the Greek Registrar which uses the term "did not bring any burden" - and confirmation from the Bank that the mortgage had been paid. And all the documents have many official stamps (five on the Bill of Sale alone).

I assume all this is pretty watertight as I would not want to get involved in any legal proceedings in Greece!

Re proof of ownership documentation on vessel coming off Greek registry

We are sold a boat that was under Greek flag for 6 years. It was deleted from Greek registry in 2008. The original deletion certificate has been presented to us.

However, we are told that the Greek registry retains the original BoS from the the builder to the 1st Greek owner ever after deletion.

How can this be?

When you bought your boat in Greece, did the Greek registry retain any of the original proof of ownership documentation?

 

[Tranona]

Yes, I only have the Bill of Sale from the dealer to me, plus of course the de-registration document and the VAT invoice from the dealer. In my case I bought the boat new so have a delayed delivery contract with the dealer.

I assume you are worried by continuity of title, but not sure it is a problem. I have heard other countries' registries also retain the original BofS.

 

[plato-gb]

?

There can be no justification for doing so, all original ownership documentation belongs with the vessel and upon deletion from a registry should be returned if indeed it has been retained by the registry during the ship's period of registry.

 

[omega2]

Would this be of any assistance??

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/bill_of_sale.pdf

 

[Tranona]

There can be no justification for doing so, all original ownership documentation belongs with the vessel and upon deletion from a registry should be returned if indeed it has been retained by the registry during the ship's period of registry.

Well, I suggest you take it up with the Greek registry and let me know if you have any success.

 

[Tranona]

Would this be of any assistance??

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/bill_of_sale.pdf

Not in this case. There is an equivalent document in Greece, but in addition you get a "Certificate of Boat's Proprietary Title" Confirming the previous owner and that it was de-registered and sold to us.

The issue with the poster is why the registry retains the document that passed title from the builder to the dealer (in my case). I don't know why, nor have I seen what form that document takes. However, pretty sure the documents I have give us clear title. We may be registering it on Part 1 now it is in UK so will be interesting to see whether the MCA raise any queries.

 

[plato-gb]

have now come up against another problem...

Have spoker with Greek reg - they say that 'it is the law' that Greek Reg hangs on the the original BoS forever, apparently. Whatever the moral justification is or isn't, the practical solution apparently, is that anyone registering a boat under Greek flag knows this (!) and makes sure they have at least 3 origial Bills of Sale so as to be able to leave the Greek Reg with one and have the others available for normal stuff.

Anyway....... my other problem is that the charter company selling the boat to my current seller bought it from another branch of their own mother company. So the BoS for this transaction was between a Greek company selling and a UK company buying. The BoS for this transaction has, bizarrely, the signature of the buyer but NOT of the seller.

They would have me believe that, in Greece, they do things the other way round and it is the buyer, not the seller who signs the BoS.

I am not taking this seriously but welcome comments.
Tranona, I assume that the BoS you got from your seller bears their signature. Did you get any previous BoS regardin your boat? Between corporate entities?

Grateful for any comments as I said.