Replacing yellow 'unmanned' discs - comments?

[boatone]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

It was a joke Chris ! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Key issues are visibilty and that the signs are used reliably - ie lockie doesnt forget to change them as, at least in my experience last season, happened too often.

Visibility covers two issues - location and visual contrast. Location means NOT actually on lock gates and easily seen when approaching. Visual contrast means eg Black or Blue on a white background. Yellow on white is a bit iffy in this respect tho I dont think they are too bad.

As for people understanding what they mean it wont take long whatever is chosen but you need to stick with it. A lot of people are now used to the yellow blobs so you could argue that a change will create more confusion in the short term.

Most important is that the hire companies do a MUCH better job of briefing their customers before letting them loose. Regular river users will have no problem with whatever system is used.

 

[boatone]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, that is a prohibited sign not an information sign.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good morning, oh wise one ! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Chris_d]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

Blimey this simple sign isn't half controversial /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, actualy I wouldn't put it anywhere except on the lock gates, if the gates are open and its not visable you just enter the lock anyway.

Actualy I thought it was a good idea originaly just a poor choice of colour but now thats its familiar not a problem.

 

[apollo]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

How about a small rectangular sign that says "Lock Unmanned"

Rumour has it there is a job lot of them in a skip somewhere so if you could get them NO MORE MONEY needs to be wasted on this BALLS UP (yellow ones, that is) /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[DogsBody]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

Well there you have it Angela,

Seems that the consensus on here is that if you must change the sign, just choose another colour that isn't already used for anything else.

As said by a couple of others though, do think about the location of some of these unmanned signs as they are not always visible on approach to the lock.

Darren.

 

[boatone]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

Ah, thats much more like the Apollo we know and love !

Just leave the damn things as they are. Get used to them, move on. In a years time they'll be totally accepted and we'll have something else to argue about (or, in Apollo's case, complain about ! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif)

 

[apollo]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

I think the better move would be to replace the dipsh!t that thought of the yellow balls in the first place, that would save a lot more money! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[TrueBlue]

What about a truly British compromise?

We were told originally that Yellow was chosen because it was highly visible. I assume that was an expert opinion (!). Surely the clash with stream warnings was forseen???

Anyway my compromise to save as much dosh as possible and keeping it simple so that other documentation doesn't have to be changed in a hurry, How's about:-

A centre horizontal stripe white on a blue background or contrariwise, blue on a white background stating your message -
DIY
Self service
No service

or whatever gets the message across to those that need it?
<ul type="square">
The sign is still yellow
A strip stick on wouldn't cos a lot and can be fixed by the lockkeeper
The stick on is small, easy to manufacture and to apply
Solves the problem.
[/list]


Secondary suggestion: Blue stick on circle with message in white, proceed as above.


It shouldn't be an issue for folks on the forum as (most of them) are sensible and use the river. The majority of users however, use the river infrequently, don't bother to read instructions, and aren't particularly interested...

To my mind the gates are the best compromise - temporary away boards were never put in a position where they could be read from the water; were infrequently used anyway.
A fixed sign on a closed gate is easy to spot from afar. If the gates are open and the lock empty, then it's an invitation to enter/
If the signs were to be placed anywhere else then I suspect they might not be used. Oh and more subject to vandalism - as the National Trust on the Wey.

 

[angelaquayle]

Re: What about a truly British compromise?

Thank you for all these comments. We do need to make sure people can see them and that the staff use them and this is ongoing. We're going to see if sticking the new version over the old one will work to do it as cheaply and quickly as possible. Thanks again. (wot no PR angle?!)

 

[apollo]

Re: What about a truly British compromise?

I think even you would struggle to make any PR angle out of this balls up!

In essence you have changed a system that worked perfectly well for decades with one that most did not understand and was treated with contempt by your staff.

Not much to boast about.

 

[Brayman]

Re: What about a truly British compromise?

Yawn

 

[Chris_d]

Re: What about a truly British compromise?

/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[ms1]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

no signs please
large proportion of users seem to have no idea that the amber disc is significant let alone what it means.
can we just have some words so river users dont have to have received prior communications about their meaning

Lock Un-manned
no lock keeper
lock self-serve

something obvious please

lets have words

 

[teddington_lock]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

Can't have words ..... then the oiks know that they can come and vandalise the locks with impunity.

 

[Outinthedinghy]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

What about having nothing at all and when someone arrives at a lock they find that there either is someone to help them or there isn't someone to help them. Or is that too simple?

Was this whole 'amber discs' thing devised when the assumption was that resident lock keepers were going to be booted out and replaced by des res rich types and they wanted to reduce the likelihood of boaters knocking on the door asking for help by giving a 'clear indication' that there is not a lock keeper in attendance?

A sign saying whether a lock keeper is in attendance is not necessary, specially with the spread of public power. You get to a lock, tie up in the layby walk up to the lock and... operate the lock yourself if there is no lock keeper. Why do we need to be told? What effect does it have other than encouraging people to moor in lock layby's?

 

[Brayman]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

It is definitely beneficial to know if a lockkeeper is likely to work the lock for you. for starters it might make you decide which side of the layby you are going to moor. If it's a manual lock it might suggest you back off and stop for a bite to eat in the hope the lockkeepr will return within the hour. It might also tell you why there is such a great queue with nothing apparently going on.

 

[Phill]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

[ QUOTE ]
Can't have words ..... then the oiks know that they can come and vandalise the locks with impunity.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think a colour coded sign will stop will stop that , you are very much mistaken.

It makes perfect sense to me to use written words on lock signs and that way the majority of us understand whats going on. It would be nice to have it in English only, and not every other language known to man.
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[teddington_lock]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

No , no , i'm not mistaken , i didn't design them. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

So if there are words that say ' Lock Unmanned ' you don't think that even the most illiterate crim would understand that that meant there was no one there ?

Unless someone explained what the yellow disc meant , how would they know ? ( unless they were plotted up 24/7 with binoculars noting our movements ) ... i don't think any of the oiks got the mailings that explained what the yellow discs mean ?

Don't think there are any agency signs on the Thames that are written in anything other than English ? I may be wrong ...

 

[Phill]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

I think even when the signs refer to the lock being unmanned, It doesn't necessarily mean no one is on site.
There is generally someone about. Either the keeper, who maybe off duty, a boat owner or crew member or a member of the public. surely any of these would stop an act of vandalism.

Are vandals a common problem now days? I have no idea of damage frequency.

Also I'm sure even a crim would be capable of asking what the sign meant so I see no point in using a code.

As for foreign language, not seen it on any agency signs yet but who knows? /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[bradtarga34]

Re: Replacing yellow \'unmanned\' discs - comments?

Can't you just post out another bulletin with your next posting reminding people what the sign means maybe in a way that the real challenged folk can quickly refer to? I got used to it easily enough as well as folks we cruise with, surely it can't be that hard to understand... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif