Replacing sails/sailmaker advice please!

[mickyp168]

Hi
My sails are getting a bit tired and neither were actually originally designed for my boat. I am considering taking the plunge and having a main and a #3 Genoa ( the smaller one?) made. The boat is a Daimio 700 made by CNSO in France who are no longer around. Grateful for the following advice please . A good sail maker in the UK or France where I live. How do I calculate the correct sizes? Or would a professional sail maker have my boat in a database? Is there a preference in type or weight of material? I am a weekend sailor, I don't do any transatlantic crossings etc! Anything else I need to consider I may not have thought about?
Thanks
Mick

 

[Tranona]

The bigger sailmakers have comprehensive information on their websites covering choice of styles and materials plus templates for measuring.

There is a big choice of sailmakers, but you won't go far wrong with either Kemps or Crusader as a starting point.

 

[KellysEye]

I've mentioned this many times but before choosing a sail maker choose the cloth. Get samples from a number of sail makers, a bright light and a magnifying glass. Put the light behind the cloth and use the magnifying glass, what you will see is how much fibre is in the cloth. Fibre is expensive glue is cheap so the more fibre there is means a better quality and the sail will last longer before stretching. The highest fibre content is in Hood sails. Then decide which quality you want. Then get quotes it's buyers market at the moment so you should be able to negotiate.

 

[duncan99210]

I bought from Crusader on the basis of good reports on this forum plus they were doing a winter special offer which meant they were about £1000 cheaper than the next best quote. Good sails showing no unexpected signs of wear after four seasons in the Med.

 

[johnalison]

I've had good use from the sails I got from Kemp but when it came to replacing them this year I have decided to go for a local firm with a good reputation. They are not particularly cheap but I value the chance to chat with them and have them come to my boat to fit them.

 

[TimBennet]

My top tips are:

- Always use a sailmaker that recommends exactly the sort of sail you want. If you ask them to make something that's not their 'first choice', they get all sulky and are more likely to do a poor job.

- Don't ask any of them to do anything between now and the end of July. Soldier on with what you have and you'll get their undivided attention come September.

 

[lpdsn]

Soldier on with what you have and you'll get their undivided attention come September.

+1

And the OP should get them to measure so the sail suits the boat.

 

[doug748]

If you are thinking of roller furling, or a fully battened main, now is decision time.

The furling gear is not so expensive in the smaller sizes and it's big advantage is that you can have the big sail as you need it to suit the conditions. The downsides are the cost, complication and sailing losses, most cruising sailors are happy to bear it.
Perhaps you could live with just the furling gear and a new genoa for now and get the rest later? Or have a large genoa cut down to suit furling, for now, and invest in a new one as you can afford it. Anyway

I had new sails recently. The Dacron materials were, for the main: Contender High Aspect Fibercon (which the sailmaker was keen on) and for the genoa: Challenge Marblehead (recommended on this forum). Dunno if this is good or bad, but this stuff is fairly respected and a starting point for your thoughts. I chose a local sailmaker as it is nice to lug sails over to them, discuss them on the ground and get them to measure themselves if this is required. You do pay more though.

 

[KenMcCulloch]

I bought from Crusader on the basis of good reports on this forum plus they were doing a winter special offer which meant they were about £1000 cheaper than the next best quote. Good sails showing no unexpected signs of wear after four seasons in the Med.

Crusader sails are built down to a price and while well made the cloths they use may not be the most durable. I say this having bought a new main for a Folkboat, from them, about 5 years ago. I no longer own the boat but was invited out for a sail in her this summer; I thought the main looked pretty tired. Contrast that with the sails built for our current boat by Owen Sails (local to the Oban area) 10 years ago which are still serviceable although a bit stretched after 12 years including an Atlantic circuit. We are having a new main from the same sailmaker this season and although it's costing half as much again as Crusader's price I am confident it will be money well spent. I'd go to a local sailmaker and spend a bit more if that is an option for you.

 

[Tranona]

Crusader sails are built down to a price and while well made the cloths they use may not be the most durable. I say this having bought a new main for a Folkboat, from them, about 5 years ago. I no longer own the boat but was invited out for a sail in her this summer; I thought the main looked pretty tired. Contrast that with the sails built for our current boat by Owen Sails (local to the Oban area) 10 years ago which are still serviceable although a bit stretched after 12 years including an Atlantic circuit. We are having a new main from the same sailmaker this season and although it's costing half as much again as Crusader's price I am confident it will be money well spent. I'd go to a local sailmaker and spend a bit more if that is an option for you.

You need to be careful with theses sorts of comparisons. Sailmakers like Crusader offer a wide choice of materials. As in general construction labour costs are fairly constant, price differences result mainly from material costs. So if you buy from the budget range that is what you get. If you choose a higher spec material you pay for it and get the benefits. There is demand all types, but when making comparisons it is important compare apples with apples.

The job of the sailmakers is listen to your requirements including budget, advise the pros and cons so that you can make an informed choice.

 

[ip485]

I am going to give Kemp sails a plug as a happy customer.

They made me a complete set. What stood out and why did I chose Kemp?

Well I gather their sails are made in the UK unlike many. Much more importantly they take the time, trouble, care and attention to make them right and deal with any issues that arise (in my case minor). Communication is also very good and very personable. They measured mine on the boat, but I guess that may depend where you are and absorbing the cost in the price (after all nothing is for free).

I suspect give the dimensions most sails can be designed on the computer today.

Do think about and carefully discuss the material to use - it makes a big different with many factors to be taken into account. You dont order new sails every day of the week so worth getting right.

 

[Derm]

has any one been to the Crusader loft? o they have one or do they put out a low cost sails contract to a range of sailmakers each year. For what it my be worth, go to your localsail maker, visit heir loft, look at what they are making and who theor local customers are. The vast amjority of sails today are spced here and built over here in the Far East. Thats done for price, the majority of sailmakers now only havean office here with people who will measure and send to the overseas loft.

People who make sails here are Sanders of Lymington, Doyle Southampton (dependng upon class and size) and One Sails in Hamble. There are others and the vast majority put it out to the Far East. Whomever you choes build a realtionship with them as I have with Sanders, who listen to wat sort of saiiling ou are doing and supply appropriately.

 

[Tranona]

has any one been to the Crusader loft? o they have one or do they put out a low cost sails contract to a range of sailmakers each year. For what it my be worth, go to your localsail maker, visit heir loft, look at what they are making and who theor local customers are. The vast amjority of sails today are spced here and built over here in the Far East. Thats done for price, the majority of sailmakers now only havean office here with people who will measure and send to the overseas loft.

People who make sails here are Sanders of Lymington, Doyle Southampton (dependng upon class and size) and One Sails in Hamble. There are others and the vast majority put it out to the Far East. Whomever you choes build a realtionship with them as I have with Sanders, who listen to wat sort of saiiling ou are doing and supply appropriately.

Crusader have their own loft in Poole and sails are made there. Family owned and the folks you talk to are the ones who design and build the sails. Same with Kemps in Wareham. Paul Lee's is your man at Crusader and Rob Kemp at Kemps. They have staff of course but both owners are hands on.

 

[solosails]

Hi
My sails are getting a bit tired and neither were actually originally designed for my boat. I am considering taking the plunge and having a main and a #3 Genoa ( the smaller one?) made. The boat is a Daimio 700 made by CNSO in France who are no longer around. Grateful for the following advice please . A good sail maker in the UK or France where I live. How do I calculate the correct sizes? Or would a professional sail maker have my boat in a database? Is there a preference in type or weight of material? I am a weekend sailor, I don't do any transatlantic crossings etc! Anything else I need to consider I may not have thought about?
Thanks
Mick

Hi Mick,

For quote purposes, you can be pretty rough with dimensions, just get a long tape measure (worth having about the boat and house anyway!), you will also need a retrieval line (just a strong bit of string or rope as long as your longest hoist.)

It's best to do it on a calm day as the tapes flutter enormously in any kind of wind and will exaggerate the measured length)

The main's dimensions you will only need the main's luff and foot.

1) Attach both the tape measure and retrieval line to the halyard, hoist up to maximum hoist (making sure you keep control of the retrieval line).

2) pull the tape in tight enough to be straight, (but not enough to stretch it), take the measurement length at the tack point of the sail.

3) pull it all back down using the retrieval line (not the tape)

4) Measure the distance from tack point to clew point

That's it. Make sure the sailmaker knows they are Maximum measurements

The Genoa is a little more involved, but simple enough...

1) As with the main, attach the tape and retrieval line to the halyard (to the furler head shackle if a furling sail) Hoist to max.

2) Take the measurement as before to the tack point of the sail.

3) (I) whilst the halyard is still up there, measure down to the deck at the toe rail athwart-ships (in line) with the mast-foot.

4) (J) lower all down again, then attach the tape measure to the sail tack point, and measure the distance to the front face of the mast at mast foot/collar

With these dimensions, the sailmaker should have enough to give you a price based on material choice.

If and when it comes to the actual final design/build measurements, it does get a little more tricky as there are quite a few important factors to include like tack cut-back, mast rake, spreader sizes etc etc. But for now, that's all you need. We're planning on making a video soon to help users measure their own boats successfully, but that'll have to wait until warmer weather! brrr

Material Choice...

This is down to the sailmakers discussion with you as to what you want to achieve, but it sounds like you need a pretty straight forward set of dacron sails.

Go for a good quality cloth, not a budget one. The price difference isn't worth the saving in terms of how long the sail will last with a good cloth. IE, a cheap cloth will loose its shape quicker than the value in time saved by buying a genuine good quality cloth. Make sure the sailmaker names the cloth make and weight. If you can't find any info on the make online, ask them to clarify who makes it and its proper name!

Good luck!

 

[G12]

Crusader sails are built down to a price and while well made the cloths they use may not be the most durable. I say this having bought a new main for a Folkboat, from them, about 5 years ago. I no longer own the boat but was invited out for a sail in her this summer; I thought the main looked pretty tired. Contrast that with the sails built for our current boat by Owen Sails (local to the Oban area) 10 years ago which are still serviceable although a bit stretched after 12 years including an Atlantic circuit. We are having a new main from the same sailmaker this season and although it's costing half as much again as Crusader's price I am confident it will be money well spent. I'd go to a local sailmaker and spend a bit more if that is an option for you.

I have to say that as much as I dislike Crusader and wouldn't use them again (long story) they will make you sails out of whatever cloth you like. Their cheap stuff doesn't last (my old mainsail that came with my previous boat was completely blown out after 3 years) but another sail I had made by them out of Hydranet is still in very good condition. The Hydranet sail was over twice the price of their cheap and nasty dacron for comparison.

My new choice of sailmaker is Kemp. They bent over backwards to quote me and sort out my picky requirements.

I've also seen great sails made by Sanders, Westaway, North and Hood.

 

[MagicalArmchair]

Just a quick note to recommend the chaps at http://wilkinsonsails.co.uk great value and lovely people. Get a price from them and you may be surprised how little it is. They made a cover for my fathers 37 ft Harley Mead Gaff cutter and it is a work of art and was very keenly priced.

 

[prv]

Crusader have their own loft in Poole and sails are made there. Family owned and the folks you talk to are the ones who design and build the sails. Same with Kemps in Wareham.

+1, our sails were made in Wareham, my dad went to visit the loft. And a chap from Kemp's came up to see the boat and check the dimensions even though they had the nominal ones for the type on file.

Pete

 

[Ripster]

Moatts at Portland are worth a call. Smaller loft, but very helpful and seem reasonably priced. No connection, just a happy punter.

 

[neil1967]

I had a main and genoa made for my last yacht, an Offshore 8m, and I was very happy with both. The main was made by Crusader - keenly priced, good enough quality for me, good customer service, and delivered on time. I would echo the comment that Crusader will make what you want so you have to compare like with like in terms of quality of cloth. The genoa was ordered through Seateach in Emsworth. They are not sailmakers, but are very knowledgeable, and appear to subcontract out using the spare capacity of other sailmakers. I ordered a non-standard genoa through them, again well priced, appropriate quality, and delivered on time, and although it had a Seateach logo on it, packed inside the sail was the ordering information, and the sail had actually been made by a very well known and respected UK sailmaker.

Neil

 

[Kwik Decision]

Very happy with our new no 3 genny and cruising chute from Jeckells, and would recommend them. Their rep based in the Solent area, Mark, came and measured up and discussed what we wanted in a lot of detail. However if the op's boat is in France, he could well be best off going with a local sailmaker who will give a similar service there.