replacing sails on an 18 footer, dinghy sails? what do i need to know?

S

steve yates

Well-Known Member
Joined
16 Oct 2014
Messages
4,102
Location
Benfleet, Essex/Keswick, Cumbria
Visit site
Im fairly sure my sails are knacked, they always look baggy and wrinkly.
The boat is 50yrs old, a bradwell 18, no idea on sails. I would guess it is its second main as original is in sailbag)
Anyway, if the chance comes up, id like to replace them if i find a goid bargain used one.

Are dinghy sails a possibility?
Whatever they are, what specs must i know anout my existing ones to make sure what i buy will fit?
The genoa is on a furler system.
Im guessing with a furling forestay you can't have hank on sails too?
Oh its a masthead rig.
 
steve yates said:
Im fairly sure my sails are knacked, they always look baggy and wrinkly.
The boat is 50yrs old, a bradwell 18, no idea on sails. I would guess it is its second main as original is in sailbag)
Anyway, if the chance comes up, id like to replace them if i find a goid bargain used one.

Are dinghy sails a possibility?
Whatever they are, what specs must i know anout my existing ones to make sure what i buy will fit?
The genoa is on a furler system.
Im guessing with a furling forestay you can't have hank on sails too?
Oh its a masthead rig.
Click to expand...

Dinghy sails will be too light - the weight of the cloth is related to the displacement of the boat.

You need the luff and foot measurements for the mainsail and you will need to specify if it is a luff groove system or how else it is attached to the spars.

You need the luff leech and foot measurements for the headsail

No, you can't.
 
download the measuring form from any of the sailmakers such as Kemps. Apply it to your boat and that will give you the basic sizes when you go looking for secondhand sails. avoid anything that needs recutting as that can eat up any savings.

If you are buying new then discuss with sailmakers as there is an enormous choice of materials and cuts.

Hanked on sails can't be used on furlers and VsVs. Watch out on mains for slugs and bolt ropes as small sails from dinghies often use the latter which are not ideal for a cruiser.
 
If you are going to invest in brand new sails you will probably find that. The relatively small charge a local rigger will make to pretty quickly measure your rig (ie you bring the boat to where he is based so no travel costs) will pay back in avoiding relatively huge costs associated with re-cutting sails for any errors introduced by making your own measurements and getting them wrong. That said it's a small boat so perhaps not easy to cock up a measurement but it happens quite a lot. Unlikely that a sailmaker has this boat on file to query any iffy measurements.

The above does not apply if sourcing secondhand but whatever you do don't use measurements of the knackered old sails.

As said it is quite important you know the correct spec of luff fitting for both main and Genoa. Rope luff sizes can make quite an impact if you get them wrong by a mm or two.
 
Luffs of jibs for furling have bolt ropes or tapes to match the slot in the foil. Mainsails may also have bolt ropes to match the mast, but more commonly have slugs. Changing slugs no big deal, bolt ropes or tapes is best done by a sailmaker.
 
A reasonably sized dinghy mainsail might well be OK: the stress on the whole rig/sails combination really won't be that much different on an 18 ft mini-cruiser like a Bradwell to a 14-16 ft dinghy with one or two crew on trapeze. A Bradwell has maybe 400/500 lbs ballast a couple of feet away from the centre of buoyancy, a trapezed 470 or similar will probably have substantially more righting moment from a mid-sized crew on trapeze plus helm sitting out.... The dinghy sails are probably actually more highly stressed.

Virtually no dinghies have roller reefing headsails of suitable size, so not worth looking for these though.
 
If you consider new sails For a Bradwell 18 you go to Lonton & Gray sail makers at Burnham or Gowen sails at mersea. They will have almost certainly made them for this class in the past

Out of interest how do the sizes compare with the squib or sandhopper for size
you can get second hand squib sails fairly easily I would expect
 
Last edited:
You might well be able to find suitable dinghy sails, once you sort out the dimensions.

NB dinghies very rarely have reefing mainsails, so if you got hold of a good main you'd probably need to have a local sailmaker put one or two rows of reef eyelets or ties along it.

A chum has a 17' Osprey racing dinghy set up for cruising - as does Dancrane of these forums - and his main has rows of reef ties.

Being able to reef the mainsail when - not if - the wind pipes up is a vital safety feature.

An 18' boat does not require a roller reefing headsail; if you ditched the roller and just had a bare wire forestay you could use hanked headsails, of which a huge variety would be available - size is not crucial as long as it fits, ie is not too long in the luff ( leading edge of the sail ) for the forestay wire.

With hanked sails it is normal to carry a variety of headsails for different wind strengths, usually;

Working Jib - average size for standard conditions, the foot almost reaching the mast

Genoa - larger sail for light winds - foot overlapping the mast a little, fine with practice

Storm jib - much smaller sail for strong conditions.

All of these would be available from established dinghy classes, for instance I suspect a Mirror, Gull or many other smaller dinghy jib would make a storm jib.

It is true that cruiser sailcloth should be heavier grade than dinghies use, but well setting sails in good condition will get you out of trouble, knackered old baggy sails will get you straight into it !

Better setting sails will allow faster more efficient progress with much better handling on the helm and far more rewarding sailing - I'm not talking about racing or anything here, just efficient safe and enjoyable sailing.
 
Seajet said:
You might well be able to find suitable dinghy sails, once you sort out the dimensions.

NB dinghies very rarely have reefing mainsails, so if you got hold of a good main you'd probably need to have a local sailmaker put one or two rows of reef eyelets or ties along it.

A chum has a 17' Osprey racing dinghy set up for cruising - as does Dancrane of these forums - and his main has rows of reef ties.

Being able to reef the mainsail when - not if - the wind pipes up is a vital safety feature.

An 18' boat does not require a roller reefing headsail; if you ditched the roller and just had a bare wire forestay you could use hanked headsails, of which a huge variety would be available - size is not crucial as long as it fits, ie is not too long in the luff ( leading edge of the sail ) for the forestay wire.

With hanked sails it is normal to carry a variety of headsails for different wind strengths, usually;

Working Jib - average size for standard conditions, the foot almost reaching the mast

Genoa - larger sail for light winds - foot overlapping the mast a little, fine with practice

Storm jib - much smaller sail for strong conditions.

All of these would be available from established dinghy classes, for instance I suspect a Mirror, Gull or many other smaller dinghy jib would make a storm jib.

It is true that cruiser sailcloth should be heavier grade than dinghies use, but well setting sails in good condition will get you out of trouble, knackered old baggy sails will get you straight into it !

Better setting sails will allow faster more efficient progress with much better handling on the helm and far more rewarding sailing - I'm not talking about racing or anything here, just efficient safe and enjoyable sailing.
Click to expand...

I was assuming the Bradwell had roller reefing on the main: if not it does not cost that much to put in reef points. DIY-able with a good sewing machine and proper thread to put in reinforcing patches and reef points with webbing loops and S/S rings instead of pressed-in eyes.
 
Talk to Stuart at SeaTeach (Emsworth). They sell second hand sails, have a good range of budget sails ( if you plan to race competitively get made-to measure ) and are a good company to deal with. All my current wardrobe except the spinnaker came from there. He sorted out a couple of sails for a mate in Scotland too so we are both satisfied customers.
 
Your last sentence, Andy, is exactly what I'm after :)
Jwilson, she does indeed have roller reefing.

I have wondered about handed on fore sails being simpler, and no curler to jam!
Against that is the fact I don't need to go on the foredeck to change sails, and dropping or adding sail at critical times, anchoring/mooring etc might be easier with a furler?
I am singlehanded usually.
Will try the emsworth guys.

Thx all.
 
steve yates said:
Your last sentence, Andy, is exactly what I'm after :)
Jwilson, she does indeed have roller reefing.

I have wondered about handed on fore sails being simpler, and no curler to jam!
Against that is the fact I don't need to go on the foredeck to change sails, and dropping or adding sail at critical times, anchoring/mooring etc might be easier with a furler?
I am singlehanded usually.
Will try the emsworth guys.

Thx all.
Click to expand...
My 22' boat used to have a roller genoa, but it was a bit small so I replaced it with a suite of hank-on sails and a 4mm diameter line running from the halyard to the tack and back to the cockpit via some small blocks. This down-haul means I can drop the sail in seconds. It is way more reliable than the old roller thing and I get the right sail for the job (after going forward to change it obviously)
 
Rum Run,

as we have the same 22' I can only agree.

My boat has always had separate headsails, I've seen too many cock-ups with rollers to be remotely interested in them; on a bigger boat a roller makes sense, as long as it's a reliable system - but on ours one can tuck even a No1 Genoa under an arm when going forward.

I know of another Anderson whose owner started off a novice so kept the roller she came with, as experience grew - and being an engineer he realised the shortcomings of an old unreliable system - he ditched the roller and now has separate sails too; both he and I usually singlehand.

Completely agree re the headsail downhaul line, extremely useful for the cost of a bit of light line !
 
Ok, that makes sense, and indeed I see my furler system as a constant jam waiting to happen!

That might be the way forward when she is sitting idle near a rigger for a while.

Rum Run said:
My 22' boat used to have a roller genoa, but it was a bit small so I replaced it with a suite of hank-on sails and a 4mm diameter line running from the halyard to the tack and back to the cockpit via some small blocks. This down-haul means I can drop the sail in seconds. It is way more reliable than the old roller thing and I get the right sail for the job (after going forward to change it obviously)
Click to expand...
 
steve yates said:
Im fairly sure my sails are knacked, they always look baggy and wrinkly.
The boat is 50yrs old, a bradwell 18, no idea on sails. I would guess it is its second main as original is in sailbag)
Anyway, if the chance comes up, id like to replace them if i find a goid bargain used one.

Are dinghy sails a possibility?
Whatever they are, what specs must i know anout my existing ones to make sure what i buy will fit?
The genoa is on a furler system.
Im guessing with a furling forestay you can't have hank on sails too?
Oh its a masthead rig.
Click to expand...
As it's masthead rig, dinghy sails are not really going to work for the genoa.
You could look at used sails from a bigger boat with a fractional rig? Maybe Sonata? Etchells? for the genoa. Racing fleets are a good source of used sails.

A dinghy main might have the right luff and foot dimensions, but will be cut for a bending mast. Unlikely to set well.
Re-cutting is likely to be costly unless you DIY.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top