replacing rotten planking

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flykeith

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Didn't want my first post to be like this, but here we are!

1938 44' Robert Clarke cutter, cascover sheathed, at least two areas of rot, should I remove all the cascover? Survey did not pick up any rotten planks, but whilst scraping the bilge I found one area of decay, and a bubble on the cascover revealed another. Pretty handy DIYer should I replace the planking, or hand over to a boatyard. In the event of the latter, anyone recommend a yard in Ipswich area? Novice's question, do you replace the whole plank, or only the rotten bit (not sure if structurally the boat requires long planks)? Areas affected are both by a frame, rot clearly starting on inside.
 
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Most definitely Sue the incompetent B

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What a delightfully wonderful litigatious attitude! Everybody wants to sue some somebody don't they. If the Surveyor is at fault, I think it would be more productive to at first contact him and have a chat, not blag straight in with the bloody lawyers!

Jeeeeeez!
 
Not in the legal profession are we Boatbuilder & Tangomoom? /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

I would rather have practical advice from people who have had experience of cascover and/or plank replacement.

Because of the litigious world we live in, the surveyor covers himself with comments like "The report implies no guarantee against defects.... report based on a snap shot of the craft without removal of paint coatings.." etc And to be fair the area inside was behind the steel water tank so inaccessible at time of survey.

So any advice gratefully received.
 
Having replaced rotten carvelplanking and not being a great craftsman I had no problem.Easier toreplace longer lenghts,makesure your butts donot coincide.
 
If you do it yourself, make sure you go at least 12-18 inches further along the plank than any softness or discolouration: its amazing how far the rot spores can spread along a plank.
 
No, I am not in the legal profession, but I am in the boatbbuild and repair world.
If an owner wants a survey on a boat then it should be done properly, after all there so many caveats on a survey that I think that some just turn up, check that the boat exists, and go home.
There are some very good and some very bad surveyours. Just this week I have been given quotes for a 60ft boat that go from £350- £1800. Needless to say the owner has gone for the cheapest.
I await the report with trepidation.
 
To answer a part of your original question, there are several good places in the area. Robertsons at Woodbridge are, I believe, very good but I have no direct experience of them. Gus Curtis at Harry King's yard, Pin Mill, is also good and probably reasonably priced as well. I'm sure others could suggest yards which are just as good.
 
I have ample experience (approx, 20 years!) of Robertsons at Woodbridge and recommend them highly. I also know that they have quite a bit of experience with Cascover, although I myself have none.

I'd also recommend Martin Evans as a surveyor.
 
When I bought Mirelle she had two rotten CRE bent frames behind a water tank, which was boxed in behind a locker and had evidently been dripping from a slow leak for quite some time.

I did not sue the surveyor (the late Peter Brown); quite the contrary, I cultivated his acquaintance and learned a great deal from him - he surveyed the boat twice more, once after damage in the October 87 storm and once in 1994, before he died.

I did gain a lasting suspicion of galvanised steel water tanks.
 
I'm not in the legal profession either but I am a boatbuilder of nearly 35 years experience who has done a surveying course. In 2004 I needed a brand new boat surveyed and my first choices of surveyors in Falmouth were not available. I picked a name from the phone directory and was shocked by the level of the man's incompetence and lack of knowledge. I told him the nature of the boat and the requirements of the survey (valuation for insurance). When he turned up he knew nothing of the construction method, had no idea of value and refused to inspect rig, engine, electronics or pretty much anything. He did however open and close all the hatches and put a moisture meter on a brand new hull which had never been in the water. If anyone is getting a survey in Falmouth please feel free to PM me and I'll tell you how to avoid this idiot.
 
Thanks all for the advice and recommendations, I'll get a couple of quotes but am probably going to try it myself. Still not sure about the cascover, I'll keep you posted.
 
One point not covered

You asked:

"Novice's question, do you replace the whole plank, or only the rotten bit (not sure if structurally the boat requires long planks)? Areas affected are both by a frame, rot clearly starting on inside."

Mogy gave a short answer referring to the need to observe the shift of butts, but I'd like to expand that a bit.

You are quite right; replacing short lengths of plank is an unsafe and unsound practice, as the longitudinal strength of the boat is affected.

So the answer is - you replace the whole plank.

It is advisable to remove the old plank carefully, as it forms a template for the new one, but if it won't lie flat there are other ways to spile for the new plank - see the usual textbooks.

Planks near the bilge are easiest as they are more or less straight. Planks nearer the sheerstrake and nearer the garboard are a bigger problem as they are curved - they "hang" or they "sny", so they must be got out of wide boards.

In fact you will be amazed at the amount of wood that you waste in getting out a carvel plank.
 
Re: One point not covered

Just a note I would make a pattern of the plank to bre removed fromthin ply then in the event that you had tocut or semidestroy said plank to remove it you would have aproper template
 
Re: One point not covered

Good point!

There's a really nice way to spile a plank, but you need a couple of long battens which are as long as, and the same thickness as, the plank being replaced, and about square in section. Any old wood will do, if its long and knot free.

Having taken the old plank out, locate (with a couple of wire nails onto the frames) one batten such that its inner corner is touching the next plank up, and the other batten similarly touching the next strake down.

Nail a good number of cross pieces roughly diagonally between the two battens (more wire nails!) and if possible don't let the cross pieces extend beyond the battens.

Pull the wire nails holding the battens to the frames and you have a perfect shape of the plank to be fitted, albeit a bit floppy - put it on the timber for the new plank and Robert is your mother's brother!
 
Re: One point not covered

Remove the old plank, tack a bit of thin ply over the hole, bent to shape if necessary, go inside and trace the shape with a pencil, jigsaw the template shape out of the ply, lay this on the new wood, mark, and cut out the new plank.
 
Re: One point not covered

Or, indeed, the professional's method:

Grab any manky length of thin board and G clamp it into the hole left by the departed plank. Grab a pencil and a short stick and cover the manky length of thin board with hieroglyphics indicating the angle the stick was at and the distance to the point at "n" locations.

Undo clamps, place manky length of thin board on planking stock, place stick on it in positions indicated by hieroglyphics, reconstruct outline of hole, saw out plank.
 
I would beg to differ regarding the necessity to replace the whole plank.
I hope my memory serves me correctly in that Lloyds specify the spacing of butts in planking for newbuild , we used to use these tables / formulae for planking repair. Depending on the length and width of the plank and the position of the nearest butts - both vertically and horizontally - extra butts can be introduced , making repair considerably easier. If on a hard curve you may have to cut the piece in 3D - it will not be possible to steam bend it.

Can anyone confirm what I am trying to say ?
Does anyone have these tables ?
 
Yes you are right and yes I've got a copy of Lloyds Rules for Wood Yachts - somewhere!

But as a working rule one should try to avoid short lengths - there may be other repairs already - and it is better to replace a whole strake, if possible.
 
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