Replacing Holly/Teak Sole board

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Sailfree

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Decided that I will buy new 18mm ply sheets with wood veneer and cut to size. You cannot buy just the wood veneer only the laminate and imitation just does not cut it for me.

I enjoy working with my hands but accept that I may mess up a few pieces.

I have a Festool plunge circular saw with the plank guide so straight cuts are no problem. Its the rebating the latches to lift the floor panels and cutting the curves that I am seeking the best way.

have seen a few other examples of my boat and the current gaps between floor hatches etc are the worse I have seen so hope to do better than jeanneau biut will use existing floor as basis for template.

Happy to buy specialist tools (except a laser cutter!!).

To avoid damaging veneer is there a special finer cut router blade or is it a case of small router and open out to correct size gently from the inside?

Is there a good jig saw specifically for veneers? Is it better to cut on down stroke having taped veneer surface.

Was thinking of going to Axminster tools to seek their advice but I guess googling you tube will provide some demonstrations.


Any suggestions?
 
There is a jig-saw blade that is specifically made for plywood. It cuts both on the down as well as the up-stroke. There is virtually no splintering on any of the faces. The teeth are triangular and are on each side of the blade, sharpened on their inner edges.

However, no matter how carefully you cut, the end result will still be an imitation and is very unlikely to look anywhere like the real thing, IMHO.

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Be careful if ordering several sheets, you could have a problem with mismatch, I found the holly stripes varied in spacing.

I drew a floor plan with a reference line down the centre of the floor and marked out the dimensions of the boards, quarter inch oversize all round and had selected boards supplied ready cut with matching stripes - IIRC Robbins at Bristol by post. Then I trimmed them to size with a fine blade on radial arm saw, any slight splintering on the underneath edge cleaned off with sander. At that time they had some thicker than normal veneers, I think 1.3mm instead of the norm which is about 0.8mm.

For cutting circular rebates for lifting rings Forstener bits or router.

EDIT - Just remembered, it was Howells at Poole (not Robbins) who supplied the cut boards - http://www.kjhowells.com/
 
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You might find 6mm teak and holly laminated onto a 12mm base cheaper than 18mm boards. worth getting them cut professionally by somebody like Jordans using a CNC laser cutter. Robbins can probably recommend others who can do the job. When you see the price of the boards, the cutting cost will minor!
 
PuffTheMagicDragon said:
There is a jig-saw blade that is specifically made for plywood. It cuts both on the down as well as the up-stroke. There is virtually no splintering on any of the faces. The teeth are triangular and are on each side of the blade, sharpened on their inner edges.

However, no matter how carefully you cut, the end result will still be an imitation and is very unlikely to look anywhere like the real thing, IMHO.
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Thanks for that but hoping your opinion is wrong! Jeanneau use 18mm ply with wood veneer (1.2mm?) on my boat. Veneer has worn through with charter use and been damaged in many places. We saw boat being built in factory and was surprised to see a lot of manual trimming of cabin soleboards with a jigsaw. Gaps on my boat varys but often up to 8-10mm in certain places. I have seen beter fit on other identical boats.

I just feel I must be able to do better even if it takes me all winter.

Prepared to admit failure but want to try with best advice and adequate tools first.

FYI I did teach myself to weld and respray cars and ended up with a garage business to pay for my degree many years ago. Little relevance to cutting laminated ply except as demonstration of ability to learn practical skills.
 
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Tranona said:
You might find 6mm teak and holly laminated onto a 12mm base cheaper than 18mm boards. worth getting them cut professionally by somebody like Jordans using a CNC laser cutter. Robbins can probably recommend others who can do the job. When you see the price of the boards, the cutting cost will minor!
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Trouble is that I don't want them cut identical to existing as I want to reduce the gaps to match better put together boats (identical to mine!) Hence no template for CNC cutting. Each piece will be amended to suit the necessary closing of the gaps - in addition to renewing the floor!
 
Sailfree said:
Trouble is that I don't want them cut identical to existing as I want to reduce the gaps to match better put together boats (identical to mine!) Hence no template for CNC cutting. Each piece will be amended to suit the necessary closing of the gaps - in addition to renewing the floor!
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If that's the case, why not make some accurate templates out of some 4 - 6mm ply fitted as you would like them to fit, and use them for templates, this would be a cheap option, then have them CNC routered in the proper board or laminate.
If you were to use the teak ply laminate option, the templates could then be used to cut the ply back board to size before bonding both sheets together.

This would mean you could fit them easily to your own spec, if you mess up the cost of 4mm ply is cheap, your CNC work will be cheaper ( possibly ). No major outlay on tools and the satisfaction of knowing you have done it as you like but with relatively no hassle and possibly cheaper?

Before making the templates of 4mm ply though, you may need to contact your CNC company to ask what thickness templates they would require.

Just a thought.
 
Two interesting contributions there.

Looks like I can rout to size without damaging veneer providing last cut is only 2-3mm excess. If I cut 12 mm board to size as good as I can ( may even be perfect!) and then use it to cut 6mm veneered board to stick on top. Then glue/ screw both together.

Providing sticking 6mm to 12mm is as good finally as starting with 18mm board.

I am happy doing square bits straight out of 18mm board using the Festool plunge circular saw I have (and guide plank) - kitchen fitters use them for laminated work tops. It's the shaped bits (both sides & by companionway) that I am concerned about.

Many of the panels have a teak edging strip which is glued/tacked onto edge of board.

No trouble buying good tools as always an investment with 3 properties to maintain. Apparently there is a benefit in using a jig saw with additional pendulum action - still in info gathering mode!

After sole boards it's replacing the cockpit teak inlay as another project - retirement gives you time but restricted income!
 
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Sailfree said:
Trouble is that I don't want them cut identical to existing as I want to reduce the gaps to match better put together boats (identical to mine!) Hence no template for CNC cutting. Each piece will be amended to suit the necessary closing of the gaps - in addition to renewing the floor!
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Get a keen young engineering student to draw it up on a CAD file, including the gaps you want then send the file to the machine shop!
 
Tranona said:
Get a keen young engineering student to draw it up on a CAD file, including the gaps you want then send the file to the machine shop!
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I can delete "young" (in your quote) and do that myself as I am competent with autocad LT. Will still need to assemble with the teak lipping that is present on most pieces.

Thanks for suggestion all contribution will be considered but I do get a kick out of doing a good job myself even if it takes ages!
 
Sailfree said:
FYI I did teach myself to weld and respray cars and ended up with a garage business to pay for my degree many years ago. Little relevance to cutting laminated ply except as demonstration of ability to learn practical skills.
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I'm very happy for you. While I have no doubt about your skills I still say that, no matter how accurately you cut and how perfect the finish, the end result will still be an imitation of the real thing. At the end of the day it's your money, your boat and your call. I only offered an opinion that you are free to disregard without causing me any anguish or sleepless nights.
 
I had some really rubbish faded holly on teak cabin sole so I used paint stripper to clean all the varnish off, then I masked the holly and did a single coat of teak stain. Then I varnished about 8 coats and the result is pretty good. A lot of work but worth it.
 
Top-notch teak-and-holly not only uses both these woods, but has each holly strip standing slightly proud of the teak. Having it laid like this allows the holly to not only protect the teak from wear in constantly-trafficked routes, but also provide a high-grip non-slip surface.

Far more expensive than your proposal of course. :(

Mike
 
Wooden Boat Fittings said:
Top-notch teak-and-holly not only uses both these woods, but has each holly strip standing slightly proud of the teak. Having it laid like this allows the holly to not only protect the teak from wear in constantly-trafficked routes, but also provide a high-grip non-slip surface.

Far more expensive than your proposal of course. :-)

Mike
I assume you are talking about solid timber as per photo in earlier response?

I like my Jeanneau but changing veneer ply sole boards for solid is akin to changing SS fittings to gold!

Already got a Festool plunge circular saw, Dewalt chop saw (mitres on teak strip lipping) a large DeWalt plunge router (used to fit kitchen laminated work tops). Decided to buy a top end Bosch jig saw with suitable blades (including one that cuts on down stoke) and will be giving it a go doing floor hatch covers first as these are most worn (thinking of modifying lifting fitting to include a catch - after mirrored heads cupboard pulled off hinges in bay of biscay sea this year!). Will do a section at a time -starting with easy square sections.

Looking forward to the challenge.
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Oh yes, of course. I wasn't implying that you should go that route, just describing what a true teak-and-holly sole is like.

I think your plan is an entirely appropriate one, and sorry for any confusion. :)

Mike
 
Wooden Boat Fittings said:
Oh yes, of course. I wasn't implying that you should go that route, just describing what a true teak-and-holly sole is like.

I think your plan is an entirely appropriate one, and sorry for any confusion. :)

Mike
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No probs

What I describe as a chop saw is in fact a DeWalt sliding mitre saw.

Can you advise on jigsaws. Bosch appear well regarded but is it better to make shape on reverse and cut upwards or cut downwards or get a fine double cut blade? Obviously pendulum action is not used on down cutting.

Want to try to cut shaped edge strips (after all I saw Jeanneau fitters adjusting the edge pieces with jigsaws) but fall back position is cut with jigsaw 2mm oversize and router to correct size using existing with added ply to give better fit shape as template.
 
GrahamM376 said:
My Makita pendulum jigsaw works fine with down cutting blades.
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What model number please and what blade eg laminate or one for wood veneers tpi?

Was thinking of top of professional range Bosch GST 1600 BCE

Thinking of going to the Tool show at Kempton Park in early October. Anyone been - are there demonstrations?
 
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I would suggest that you buy a sheet of 9mm mdf, and use this to make template boards as it cheap and easy to cut / replace if you mess up.

Once you have the MDF template boards ready, then lay them out on the plywood and mark round them for the boards you want. Then cut away from the line leaving 1cm or so all the way round. Finally clamp the new board and the template MDF together and use a bearing guided router bit to cut the board to the same size as the template.
 
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