Replacing halyards etc

Old Bumbulum said:
It is so easy to be so dismissive of people passing on advice garnered from experts.
It is so easy to be so, so clever.
Think for a minute, if you can, of the diference between flogging ropes, treading on them and sloshing them around unloaded in detergent for hours so the fibres can loosen, twist and unravel. Do try.

Was Puff imagining this too ? Apparently we are both delusional/stupid/wrong according to your "judgement".

Are you claiming to have superior knowledge to a respected Professional rigger? Not me, not Puff, but a respected Professional rigger?

It would seem unlikely to say the least. Especially as both of us have corroborated his explanation.
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Well, I have been washing ropes, mainly 3 strand and braid on braid in the washing machine for close on 40 years and have never experienced outcomes like this and equally have never heard of it. The rigger I know and used all these years (sadly now no longer with us) recommended the same treatment.

It is a regular recommendation here and again not sure anybody has reported similar experiences.
 
I would suggest rather than remove the halyards just tie a line to the sail end and pull the halyard through as far as possible
ie a bit more than half out then dunk them in a bucket of detergent and fresh water. Slosh around a bit and allow to dry.
You can wash the other end in a similar way by tieing a line to the tail end so you can pull the halyard down so the other half is on the deck for similar washing and inspection. Give the sheets a wash as well. Any real problem of mast head pulleys should show up.
With a new to me boat I would be more concerned about stay wires and age. Especially side stays. Replace them if it is unclear how old they are. Certainly should be replaced if older than 15 years. Good luck with the new boat. ol'will
 
anoccasionalyachtsman said:
To add to the above, get all of the lines off and put them through a wash cycle with fabric conditioner - they may not be as horrible as you think. It is often suggested that they get tied into a pillowcase, my experience says they'll get just as tangled in that as they do without.
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I always thought that the reason for the pillowcase (or rope net if you are posh) was to stop the rope finding its way into the gubbins of the washing machine and bringing it to a smoking halt. Esp. the old ones with agitators inside the clothes tank.
 
I find that a great way of determining if my cordage is due for replacement is to wash it every two years or so. If it comes out all fluffy then it was probably time to replace it anyway.

I only recently discovered patio magic and, I have to say, that stuff is brilliant for removing and keeping away algae, which seems to be most of the 'dirt' on my ropes.
 
SAPurdie said:
I always thought that the reason for the pillowcase (or rope net if you are posh) was to stop the rope finding its way into the gubbins of the washing machine and bringing it to a smoking halt. Esp. the old ones with agitators inside the clothes tank.
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I don't like the idea of covering something I’m trying to get all the dirt off, so I never used the pillowcase trick. Which I am quite sure would be viewed very dimly by SWMBO.

But it only took one snakes' orgy I had to disentangle, to learn to tie the two ends of a rope together before putting it in the machine. Then there’s no loose end to find its way into every loop, and any knots that do appear are easier to find and undo because they’re all on the bight.
 
BelleSerene said:
But it only took one snakes' orgy I had to disentangle, to learn to tie the two ends of a rope together before putting it in the machine. Then there’s no loose end to find its way into every loop, and any knots that do appear are easier to find and undo because they’re all on the bight.
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That's cheating! ;)
 
capnsensible said:
On our school boats I often used same coloured lines so that people could actually learn where it goes and what its purpose is. Far better for me and them than saying pull the blue one. :encouragement:
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I'm sure it's great for training but it's a touch sadistic where people are doing it for fun.

Jimmy Greens have a set of excellent guides for sizing ropes:-
https://jimmygreen.com/content/category/12-knowledge-centre
They also flog rope of course.

Marinescene do "End of Reel Offcuts" at quite good prices:-
https://www.marinescene.co.uk/category/1242/end-of-reel-offcuts

I find it unlikely that ropes will be badly damaged by washing machines as the fibre is basically the same as clothing. Of course, boat rope tends to be sized for handling rather than breaking strain, so you'd have to weaken them a lot before it became problematic.

The way to avoid tangles is to shorten the rope by pulling a series of loops through each other in a kind of plait and then tying off the ends.
https://www.animatedknots.com/chainsinnet/index.php

It won't get tangled in the gubbins of the machine in the same way your pants don't.
 
Thank you so much for all the fab advice... and so kindly expressed! I will face the fact I will need to remove it all, assess the condition, and measure. Thank you for the links, lots to learn about.

The comments made so far have raised two points for me, as someone new to these matters;

Why is there such a dearth of basic information about a boat available? When it comes to cars, I can source detailed information for cars well over 36 years old; paint specifications; suspension settings; electrical diagrams, etc. Why is there so much guesswork involved finding dimensions for say, the sails - as evidenced in the copious paperwork, drawings etc inherited with this vessel?

All the best, and most helpful, information has come from this blog and chatting to the blokes (invariably so) at the harbour/marina. Trying to get info from books is both expensive (thankfully libraries have saved me from actual expenditure so far...), and plain wrong. I think a subscription to PBO is my next move.

Many thanks to all for your kind advice.
 
Simple answer is that most boats are made in tiny numbers (relative to cars) and often not, particularly with older boats made to any standard. So even boats of the same model can differ in their details, never mind what owners do to them over the years! Things are a bit better in recent years as the RCD requires a reasonably comprehensive manual and details of all the equipment fitted. However this usually takes the form of a bundle of leaflets and handbooks from the component suppliers which get lost and out of date - plus many suppliers go out of business or change hands, as indeed do most builders.

For things like sails and rigging it really is not an issue as they are custom made if you want to replace them so have to be measured anyway. Sailmakers tend to have the OE dimensions in their records, but do not always make sails to the standard dimensions or styles as customers often demand something different or technology moves on and new alternatives open up.

That is why a well used and maintained boat will hopefully have with it the previous owners' records of what has been changed, replaced, modified etc - although this state of perfection is rarely found. So when you buy an old boat (which most are, relatively) you are embarking on an adventure learning about what you have bought.

Owners associations and forums such as this are valuable resources for tracking down parts, suppliers etc.
 
underdog said:
Question - without removing every rope & measuring it - where / how do we find out this info? Owners manual? Where to find one?

This might help for your boat, it gives the rig dimensions and suggested lengths and size for ropes

http://www.udkik.dk/app/yyshow.jsp?id=MAXI84&pr=657
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Don't ever implicitly trust published dimensions for buying stuff - as others have said boats vary - even the "same model" from the same builder. Measure what's actually there, and for halyards buy a bit longer to allow the end to be shortened slightly after a few years to move the wear points.

Whilst new boats do now have "owners manuals" this was not always the case - there was an assumption that if you were buying a new yacht you'd either know how to maintain it, or just get your boatyard to do everything.

Even if there is an owners manual, things can get changed over the years. If the boat came new with halyards to the mast, and a later owner has converted it to cockpit control, halyard lengths as quoted in the manual will be far too short.
 
Old Bumbulum said:
It is so easy to be so dismissive of people passing on advice garnered from experts.
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I am not convinced your rigger is an expert. Unless they are involved in the development and testing of ropes and the materials they are constructed from then they are an individual that has different knowledge to you and me.

If they can explain why washing a rope in washing powered is going to damage it I'd be interested to hear what they have to say.

I wash my running rigging before the start of each season for several reasons:

1) to clean the winters muck out of it;

2) to make it softer in the hand;

3) so I can inspect it from end to end.

Having stored the boat beside the M5 motorway and last year beside a commercial food smoker you won't be surprised at the amount of cr^p that comes out of the running rigging. The visual inspection will detect more damage that a waltz round the washing machine will inflict.
 
We have only had our yacht for a couple of years, a 'vintage/classic' model, which needed a thorough clean when we took it. So we have been through all this recently and for the first time.

What we learnt, which may be counter to some (highly respected) contributors here was:

Yes, use the washing machine on the most gentle cycle.
Do them one at a time, and yes, tie the ends (I got that of this forum - thanks guys n gals) :)
Washing without any 'additive' will help alot with most lines, as getting the salt out is also valuable.

If you are lucky, some of the lines/halyards may already have a 'loop' sewn at the end (not a splice). This is for the mousing line.
Buy a big ball (50 or 100m) of mousing line( I got one for £11 delivered), 4 or 5mm, but not too thin or it may 'jump' off the wheel in the block/sheave at the top of the mast and will jam, and/or not pull the thicker halyard through when re-rigging.

But most important, in my opinion for a beginner, and in hind-sight:

Buy a suitable needle(s) and thin waxed string / whipping twine.
Grab any spare short length of sheet/halyard.
And practice AT HOME joining a mouse to a halyard with said needle and string.
You only need 2 or 3 loops for each. Videos on YouTube if you havent done it before.
I didnt have a 'sailmakers palm', but just used pliers to push and pull the needle, no problem.

I also lightly taped each joint, but I am not certain that is necessary.
The joint will be quite robust, but be gentle as you pass the joint over/round the sheave.

Now you can easily and quickly take off all the lines and sheets this autumn. Many of most will not need replacing.

Obviously replace anything that looks worn.
If you choose to replace a halyard, check and note that some will come 'mouse prepared'.

Good luck, and Welcome to the forum and yachting...
 
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