Replacing Chartplotter

[andythefiddler]

HI all,

I recently posted about a problem with my Simrad NSS7 Chartplotter, the answers I got solved the issues beautifully.

I have now reached the stage where it is showing other niggling issues. It is 'quite old', that said it does stirling service with a few quirks, which are, so far, manageable.

I was hoping to glean some advice here on replacement models, at reasonable cost, possibly that I could fit myself rather than pay a contractor.
I've had some bad experiences with experts & contractors recently. I put a lot more store by my own work and information gathered form this forum. I also know, like many on here, every square inch of the boat.

The BTW is that the transponders for depth & speed are currently a fair distance from the Chartplotter, so I am concerned about cable lengths.

If I had a wish list it would include:-
Bigger Screen
Connect to Raymarine wheel mounted Autopilot
Be able to take in feeds for depth & speed.

Would be nice:-
AIS (transmit and receive)
Radio - this may be more effective to achieve with a new radio below and a deck extension.
I recognise these two are probably uber expensive as part of a chartpoltter unit.

Not bothered about fish finding. I've fished for mackerel once and only caught one very small one. That may be a mackerel record.

I am hoping to sail round UK including up to the Shetlands next summer and a good reliable chart plotter I see as an essential item.

Thanks in Advance.

Andy

 

[ashtead]

Do you have budget in mind or any space limitations? When I have replaced a plotter the space to fit it rather influences thinking. I’m no electrician but do I gather all your other bits are raymarine kit?

 

[[70521]]

You don't state what make your instruments are and if they are NMEA 2000/0183

I don't know of a chart plotter that will do all you ask of it, wind/water data will be seperate systems that can feed data to your chartplotter. AIS can be fed to the chartplotter and some VHF sets will do a DSC call from a AIS target, but to integrate it all you will need a large wallet.

From my own experience of my trip from Plymouth to Peterhead and back this summer AIS is way overrated! Interesting to see where the big ship are and what they are doing and the majority of yachts that are doing big trips like Round Britain have AIS transponders on, but the biggest issue was fishing boats and pots - especially the stealth pots marked with black flags or buoys just under the water in a spring tide.

I found that the big ships followed COLREGS, e.g One Manhattan overtook me in a narrow channel between wind farms.

 

[johnalison]

I think that much equipment these days can be connected but getting Raymarine plotter would make connection to the autopilot easy. My e7 is now some years old so I am not au fait with the new stuff. My AIS is a separate unit. It works fine, including class B, and I have connections to the log, depth, compass, wind and radio, which is all pretty standard these days. AIS, like radar, is not essential but it makes a lot of passages more relaxing.

 

[Moodysailor]

I may have posted on that other thread, so apologies if I repeat myself.

I would be (and was when we did ours) guided by what make the existing instruments are as it will likely be easier to get the same brand kit talking together as opposed to different brands. Anything is possible but you start getting into the realms of converters and multiplexers.

The autopilot connectivity maybe an issue, so definitely research this to find out what, if any MFD's will talk to that. But Raymarine is going to be easiest to talk to Raymarine, so I suggest to start there.

AIS is simple enough, it requires buying & mounting the kit, but in any case will communicate with modern MFD.

The current spec is NMEA2000 (often abbreviated as N2K). It's unlikely any of your existing kit is N2K, but there is kit out there that will convert existing signals and broadcast on N2K, so I would advise bearing this in mind when considering an upgrade - whether you do it now or later it's something to think about.

Forget VHF and MFD as one - these will always be separate (for good reason), so you can research this separately. As you are considering AIS this opens up options - you can get a combined AIS/VHF transceiver and get that in-one, or you can go with stand-alone VHF and separate AIS. Either way you are likely to need a new/additional antennae, so also bear that in mind.

I can share what we did on ours, and our thinking. This isn't the best way, or the only way - it's just to give you ideas:

We had a Raymarine C70 MFD, various Raymarine instruments (wind, depth, speed), an ICOM DSC VHF and an antiquated Furuno radar. Radar was standalone, VHF received GPS position from the Raymarine via NMEA0183.

The screen died on the C70 which forced the hand, we chose a Raymarine Axiom+9", Vesper AB-8000 AIS & Raymarine ST to STNG converter. This combination meant we could use all our existing instruments and transducers, replaced radar with AIS and had all the data on the both NMEA2000 and NMEA0183 bus. The objective being to have a system that we can build on in future and incrementally replace.

We chose the Axiom+ partly due to compatibility and 'brand matching', and partly as it is the latest gen MFD. At that level prices are very much similar, but the Raymarine edged the competition for us in terms of performance, screen brightness and the fact that it was newly released and the others had been around a few years indicated that others were approaching their upgrade cycle whereas the Axiom+ was at the beginning of it's (in theory).

 

[[70521]]

I'll add that a Remote Mic at the helm was the bit of kit that made the biggest difference to the trip. Being able to call port control and marinas while at the helm took so much stress out of getting in/out of a harbour. Dover in particular where it was really, really busy. One chap got a right bollocking polite ticking off from Dover Port Control.

 

[LadyInBed]

From my own experience of my trip from Plymouth to Peterhead and back this summer AIS is way overrated!

Maybe it's not that useful going up or down the UK E or W coast, but crossing from S coast to France it helps a lot when you are crossing the path of ships in convoy.

Being able to call port control and marinas while at the helm took so much stress out of getting in/out of a harbour

Agreed, I use a H/H vhf to do it, I don't have 16 miles range but I can call from anywhere on the boat.

 

[andythefiddler]

Useful,

I’ve not set a budget yet.

Whilst I am not ‘rich’ I tend to look at installing what is the best I can, in relation to all aspects of the boat.

If you own a boat you must stand up to the cost, otherwise the likelihood that the crew and boat will come back safely, in one piece, happy and smiling, is reduced.

I take the raymarine comments and will investigate.

Thanks so far.

 

[[70521]]

Maybe it's not that useful going up or down the UK E or W coast, but crossing from S coast to France it helps a lot when you are crossing the path of ships in convoy.

Based in Plymouth I have done the trip to France on a number of occasions. I still have the same opinion on the usefulness of AIS, but do turn the iron sail on when crossing the line of ships between Casquets and Ushant TSSes

 

[PaulRainbow]

Useful,

I’ve not set a budget yet.

Whilst I am not ‘rich’ I tend to look at installing what is the best I can, in relation to all aspects of the boat.

If you own a boat you must stand up to the cost, otherwise the likelihood that the crew and boat will come back safely, in one piece, happy and smiling, is reduced.

I take the raymarine comments and will investigate.

Thanks so far.

As per post #3, you've still to reveal what the rest of your equipment is.

 

[lustyd]

Agreed, I use a H/H vhf to do it, I don't have 16 miles range but I can call from anywhere on the boat.

I use a B&G H60 so get the benefit of both of these things!

@andythefiddler I'd probably recommend Garmin (as a B&G owner and former Raymarine owner). Once you tell him what your other equipment is, Paul will also probably recommend Garmin with a suitable converter. I actually prefer the screen of the Raymarine, and I prefer the STNG to NMEA2k for many reasons. The reason I recommend Garmin is that these devices are no longer products, they're technology platforms. Garmin get this and have for a long time been changing the way they work and develop to reflect that. Gone are the days where you buy a thing and it just works, there will definitely be bugs and new features. There's a huge bug in both of my B&G plotters which as far as I can tell will never be fixed. There isn't a good way to speak to Navico about this, and their development methods don't seem geared up to make such changes. Similar issues with various Garmin products have led to most being fixed. There's also a lot to be said for the fact that Garmin accessories and cables are cheaper. With other vendors I feel like I'm being Nickle and Dimed for every little thing even after spending thousands on the platform.

 

[mattonthesea]

If you're happy playing with wires and a little bit of simple coding then the Raspberry Pi with Openplotter and OpenCPN is a relatively cheap but highly customisable route.
GHA has done some great things with his setup.
Is it called Openplotter? Any way it's an out of the box boat management system.

 

[LadyInBed]

I use a B&G H60 so get the benefit of both of these things!

?

 

[Wing Mark]

I use a B&G H60 so get the benefit of both of these things!

@andythefiddler I'd probably recommend Garmin (as a B&G owner and former Raymarine owner). Once you tell him what your other equipment is, Paul will also probably recommend Garmin with a suitable converter. I actually prefer the screen of the Raymarine, and I prefer the STNG to NMEA2k for many reasons. The reason I recommend Garmin is that these devices are no longer products, they're technology platforms. Garmin get this and have for a long time been changing the way they work and develop to reflect that. Gone are the days where you buy a thing and it just works, there will definitely be bugs and new features. There's a huge bug in both of my B&G plotters which as far as I can tell will never be fixed. There isn't a good way to speak to Navico about this, and their development methods don't seem geared up to make such changes. Similar issues with various Garmin products have led to most being fixed. There's also a lot to be said for the fact that Garmin accessories and cables are cheaper. With other vendors I feel like I'm being Nickle and Dimed for every little thing even after spending thousands on the platform.

As a returning yacht sailor , I've looked at what Garmin are trying to sell me in the chartplotter department.
You're dead right, it's a platform.
I think Garmin may have realised that selling a simple chartplotter, which just displays the chart and shows your boat in its location is no longer their market?
The Chinese can do that for a better price.

Who wants a 'chartplotter' and who wants a multifunction display?

If I was buying a £100k all weather cruising boat, I would probably be looking at wanting radar overlaid on my chart. AIS obviously. Then it seems logical to link the AIS to the VHF so you can phone up the tanker that is about to run you down.
A lot of other functionality, would I ever want it? Do I want a chunk of my chart screen space given over to a replica of the engine rev counter or the depth sounder? That kind of thing is OK on my PC, I've got twin 21 inch monitors....

My other train of though t is reminiscing a few boat trips of last century where e.g. a race boat I crewed on lost all its instruments in one go, something crashed its network, so suddenly the chart plotter has wiped out the depth sounder and we're scrabbling for the dead tree stuff and doing 'Mark Twain' as we try to get to deep water before the tide goes out. All good fun in retrospect.

It seems that like mobile phone 'platforms', the hardware and software of chartplotters have finite lives. It's hard to understand the yearly or lifetime cost of having up to date reliable kit with up to date charts.
If I spend a grand on a Garmin, how confident can I be it's good for more than 10 years? Am I better off buying an Onwa every two years then ebaying them?

What do we want from our 'whole boat' electronics system? I know I want to know where I am, and how deep the water is. And I want a VHF. Everything else is debatable?
AIS is pretty cheap to add on?

If you've got a big budget, unless you're a racer who can't stand the windage, why wouldn't you want radar?