Replacing a teak deck with Kiwigrip

[Kelpie]

Thanks again all.
We've just been to view the boat, and yes the poster upthread correctly identified her, you win a coconut!
When you see her in the flesh, it's a whole lot of teak... acres of the stuff...
It appears to be solid, rather than a ply laminate. Is this a good thing?
The boat otherwise appears OK to the untrained eye, but for our purposes there is a fair bit of bluewater kit still to add, so that needs to be budgeted for.

One possible plan would be to remove the teak from around the chainplates only, and ensure that these areas are sound, then go sailing. Remove and make good the rest at leisure. Thoughts?

 

[pvb]

Thanks again all.
We've just been to view the boat, and yes the poster upthread correctly identified her, you win a coconut!
When you see her in the flesh, it's a whole lot of teak... acres of the stuff...
It appears to be solid, rather than a ply laminate. Is this a good thing?
The boat otherwise appears OK to the untrained eye, but for our purposes there is a fair bit of bluewater kit still to add, so that needs to be budgeted for.

One possible plan would be to remove the teak from around the chainplates only, and ensure that these areas are sound, then go sailing. Remove and make good the rest at leisure. Thoughts?

The teak looks from the photos as if it's been scrubbed harshly for years. It's worn and very ridged. Most of the teak plugs seem to have popped out (a consequence of the reduced thickness) and this will have allowed water to get to the screws, and possibly to penetrate the core. Having solid teak is better in some ways than a ply-based deck, but it does mean there are hundreds of screwholes (whereas I believe the ply-based teak was glued on). It might be possible to sand the deck to remove the ridging, then re-caulk, and take out each screw, deepen the hole (use a Forstner bit) and fit a new low-profile screw and a new teak plug. This might keep the deck going for another year or two as long as there's no core damage due to water penetration. But it's an enormous job - I did it on my old Hallberg-Rassy 352, and wished I'd never started! And, of course, it's not fixing the deck, merely delaying the next enormous job of removing the old teak.

I wouldn't recommend removing the teak around the chainplates, as this will just allow water to run under the teak and possibly get in to the core through the screw holes.

You really need to understand the extent of the work involved. If you do it yourself, it'll take forever and you'll have added costs of yard storage, building a waterproof cover, etc. If you pay someone to do it, you'll spend as much as the boat is worth.

So my advice is still to walk away; there are lots of other boats for sale. Just as a thought-starter, there's an Oceanranger for sale at a similar price to the Sealord you've just looked at. It's a 1990 boat (6 years younger), it's a tiny bit bigger than the Sealord, it has sensible Treadmaster decks, and it looks to be in fairly good condition. See https://www.yachtworld.co.uk/boats/1990/westerly-oceanranger-38-3489313/

 

[Kelpie]

All sage advice. I'm not sure I fully understand the reasons for not removing teak around the chainplates though. I was thinking fairly large areas- full width of the side-deck- enough to be able to ascertain the state of the core and to repair it as necessary.
There are lots of other boats on the market so this one only makes sense at the right price, and if we can't get a deal on one of the others.
One last point- I believe the Oceanranger is actually smaller than the Sealord. We viewed one a few months ago closer to home, again it had teak decks which need work, although not quite as bad as this morning's one. SWMBO said the galley layout means that she can't reach into the bottom of the fridge on the Oceanranger, and I'm not allowed to dismiss that criticism!

 

[pvb]

All sage advice. I'm not sure I fully understand the reasons for not removing teak around the chainplates though. I was thinking fairly large areas- full width of the side-deck- enough to be able to ascertain the state of the core and to repair it as necessary.

So how far would you go along the deck? You'd need to cut the planks and fasten the ends down with new screwholes. You'd expose the GRP deck, and water would pool in the area you'd removed and potentially get under the rest of the teak. And you couldn't just patch the area by putting new teak planks in, it would look awful. I think you'll also find that the teak toerail is installed on top of the teak deck, adding further complexity. I'm sorry to labour the point, but this boat needs massive work, and I don't think it's a DIY proposition unless you've got nothing better to do for a couple of years, and have superhuman determination. Remember too that if you buy it and start work, you'll have to finish it (or pay someone to finish it) because the boat will be unsaleable until the work is done. Perhaps I might suggest that you ask a boatyard for an estimate for (a) sanding, recaulking and re-plugging, and (b) stripping off the teak and applying Treadmaster or non-slip paint. That way, you'll have some concept of the work involved.

 

[moomba]

If your willing to do the work and have the time and energy , make then a low offer based on the condition of the boat , no boat sells for the asking price, I bought a coded boat which was aslo chartered out, in a right mess , and offered £15000 less and they said yes due to the work needed.
I had the ability to do the work my self with help from my brothers ,(Naval architect and Master ROV engineer) although I did the hard stuff and took 9 months to drop her in the water , I would say that I have added some of that money back,
It seems all labor intensive so if your willing and able go for the punt on an offer they can only say no , and you may end up with a boat that you know inside out, and all your swear words will have been embedded into her before you set sail
Just my thoughts the rest of the posts are right as well but it is ultimately your decision

Added extra , I took all my tread master off a 42ft boat a right job and Kiwi gripped it , looks amazing now and clean so it can be done but time is your enemy

 

[Frank Holden]

Thanks again all.
We've just been to view the boat, and yes the poster upthread correctly identified her, you win a coconut!
When you see her in the flesh, it's a whole lot of teak... acres of the stuff...
It appears to be solid, rather than a ply laminate. Is this a good thing?
The boat otherwise appears OK to the untrained eye, but for our purposes there is a fair bit of bluewater kit still to add, so that needs to be budgeted for.

One possible plan would be to remove the teak from around the chainplates only, and ensure that these areas are sound, then go sailing. Remove and make good the rest at leisure. Thoughts?

Speaking once again as a 25 year Sealord owner....

There are two issues common to all Sealords and possibly some of the early Oceanlords. One is the babystay... simply secured to the frd cabin bulkhead... that was shown in the Camomile link I gave in my last post. Also addressed by Bill in the running overhaul of his Sealord is the underspecked chainplate staples.... he came close to losing his rig when one on his lowers failed , I came very close to losing my rig when one of mine failed , and Brilliance -SD4- was lost near Tristan da Cunha from the same cause.

Solution was to replace with far far heavier cross section staples... not a very big job....

Another mod I have made is to get shot of the t-balls on the lowers and replace with tangs.... kit can be found at The Rig Shop, Soton.

Once that is done you have a bullet proof boat...

OK lots of other stuff will needing fixing along the way if not already done but that would be the norm for any other 35 year old boat ...

What I do with my Sealord.... http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Chile

 

[Pasarell]

Not sure how relevant this is but I have a Moody 44 that is 21 years old now. Cockpit seats and floor and all the side decks are teak. The cockpit is teak faced ply and wears out relatively quickly. I replaced mine with solid teak last year, bought as premade panels from Moody Decking that just dropped into place after the old was stripped off. The decks are solid teak so have a much longer life. On Moody's up to this size the decks were glued only. Just a few screws at corners. This means that when the teak eventually wears out the core is, hopefully, not compromised. Before I bought this boat I looked at another Moody, 10 years older, where the owner had stripped the old teak off and re gelcoated. Not quite perfect but a superb job that you wouldn't know about unless you looked very closely.
If Westerly used the same method of gluing then the job may not be quite so bad.

 

[pvb]

If Westerly used the same method of gluing then the job may not be quite so bad.

They didn't, there are hundreds of screws! See the pics in the link in post 14.

 

[doug748]

Speaking once again as a 25 year Sealord owner....


Once that is done you have a bullet proof boat...

OK lots of other stuff will needing fixing along the way if not already done but that would be the norm for any other 35 year old boat ...

....What I do with my Sealord.... http://www.cruiserswiki.org/wiki/Chile

Great stuff there Frank, shades of Tilman.

Have you any observations about the teak deck, one contributor said he had never heard of one with a wet core?
I assume teak holding screws are designed to fall short of going right through the deck and into to the core? It would be odd for any boat builder to poke holes into a core willy nilly, I would have thought. So unless there have been errors the core may indeed be fine?

 

[pvb]

I assume teak holding screws are designed to fall short of going right through the deck and into to the core?

Not in my experience.

 

[Frank Holden]

Great stuff there Frank, shades of Tilman.

Have you any observations about the teak deck, one contributor said he had never heard of one with a wet core?
I assume teak holding screws are designed to fall short of going right through the deck and into to the core? It would be odd for any boat builder to poke holes into a core willy nilly, I would have thought. So unless there have been errors the core may indeed be fine?

A very sad story here..... https://www.networkyachtbrokers.com/boats_for_sale/Westerly_33_Discus___Project-2782.html/ there is a current(ish) thread on PBO about this boat.... but that seems to have involved a deck penetration and she doesn't have teak decks...

So it can happen.

That said... I keep a bit of a watching brief on the Sealord/Oceanlord market just because I can.
I thought only one Sealord had been built with teak.... unless this is Albert's boat it looks like there were two.
To the best of my knowledge all Oceanlords had teak... except possibly some of the early ones and it is pretty easy to pick 1980's treadmaster ....

A fairly large percentage of the ones coming on the market these days have been re-decked with either treadmaster or kiwigrip and I haven't seen any mention of rotten core problems on the WOA website ( which seems to be permanently down ) or in the quarterly magazine.

That does not mean it can't happen.

Regarding the removal of the teak in the vicinity of the chainplate staples..... I would leave it in place and just crank down on them.... you will soon find out if the core is soft thereabouts....

Can't really see in the pics but those staples may already have been beefed up.

It is something that should not be neglected.... I was very lucky .... this is a staple that had been replaced but not beefed up in BA only 5 years previously.... you can also see what 1980s treadmaster looks like 30 years on..