Replacement engine for Jeanneau Sun Legende 41. Original Perkins M50

[joyfull]

Looking for recommendation and any tips on replacing the original Perkins M50 in a 1989 Jeanneau Sun Legende 41.

I hear and read praise everywhere for the Beta range (smaller, lighter, reliable etc).

The Beta range show a 10 to 38hp range and a 43 to 78hp range. The 43hp (2litre) and a 50hp (2.2litre). I presume replacement would be best with the more powerful engines. The Sun Legende is around 7.5 tonnes.

List price uk from Seapower Marine is £8,362 for the 43hp and £8,858 for the 50hp. Hopefully these would come with some sort of wiring harness and controls although this is not mentioned in the price list.

Any thoughts or recommendations much appreciated.

 

[PetiteFleur]

For a little extra Beta will also make engine brackets to suit your engine bearers. Excellent engine as well and superb backup. Check that your existing prop and shaft are suitable. Also consider a non-drip shaft seal and better sound insulation?

 

[joyfull]

Thank you. I believe the Beta rotation is the same as the perkins so the prop should be ok as long as it suits the horsepower/torque of the Beta 43.

Sounds like a good idea to upgrade the insulation when the old engine is out and the engine bay clear.

Is the non drip shaft seal an improvement?

 

[michael_w]

Shaft rotation is bit of a red herring. Most hydraulic boxes will run happily in either direction. When re-powering I chose a PRM 150 gearbox for this very reason, as the peculiarities of my boat's installation demanded a left hand prop, rather than the more usual right handed.

 

[Bobc]

Beta rotation is RH, the M50 is LH.

Beta 43 or 50 will both be a good fit. The Beta 50 sits pretty much on the same mounting points. The rear mounts are in the same place (just need some riser plates under them) and the front mounts are about an inch further forward, but sit on the same bearers (same width between the mounts).

If you get it installed by TS Marine in Swanwick, they will fabricate any plates or risers you need and will also do any modifications to the exhaust elbow (and cheaper than Beta).

I replaced a Volvo TMD-22 (same base engine, Perkins Prima) with a Beta 50 last year, and it was an easy swap. Very impressed with the engine (lots of grunt and much quieter and revs much lower).

 

[joyfull]

Beta rotation is RH, the M50 is LH.

Beta 43 or 50 will both be a good fit. The Beta 50 sits pretty much on the same mounting points. The rear mounts are in the same place (just need some riser plates under them) and the front mounts are about an inch further forward, but sit on the same bearers (same width between the mounts).

If you get it installed by TS Marine in Swanwick, they will fabricate any plates or risers you need and will also do any modifications to the exhaust elbow (and cheaper than Beta).

I replaced a Volvo TMD-22 (same base engine, Perkins Prima) with a Beta 50 last year, and it was an easy swap. Very impressed with the engine (lots of grunt and much quieter and revs much lower).

Thank you for the info. If the Beta rotation is different will I need to change the propeller which is a three bladed feathering Autostream?

 

[Bobc]

Thank you for the info. If the Beta rotation is different will I need to change the propeller which is a three bladed feathering Autostream?

No. I assume you mean a Featherstream. Feathering props work in both directions.

 

[PetiteFleur]

Thank you. I believe the Beta rotation is the same as the perkins so the prop should be ok as long as it suits the horsepower/torque of the Beta 43.

Sounds like a good idea to upgrade the insulation when the old engine is out and the engine bay clear.

Is the non drip shaft seal an improvement?

Yes, the non drip shaft seal is good. I have the Italian version of the Volvo seal,(sorry forgotten the brand)which has the advantage of not requiring 'burping' when putting back the boat into the water, but has a relief hose high up. Just needs a grease year. Other types available but this is one of the cheapest.

 

[joyfull]

No. I assume you mean a Featherstream. Feathering props work in both directions.

It is an Australian prop called Autostream. As it is feathering does that mean it works as efficiently either way the engine runs? There is some manual adjustment that can be done to change the pitch. So maybe that might need attention for best efficiency with the new engine (probably Beta 43hp change from the Perkins M50).

 

[Bobc]

It is an Australian prop called Autostream. As it is feathering does that mean it works as efficiently either way the engine runs? There is some manual adjustment that can be done to change the pitch. So maybe that might need attention for best efficiency with the new engine (probably Beta 43hp change from the Perkins M50).

Ah, ok. Yes should be fine. You probably won't even need to re-pitch it as the Beta 43 is actually slightly more powerful than the M50 at cruising revs.

 

[Bobc]

As suggested above, replace the stern gland with an Eliche Radice dripless seal. Same as the Volvo seal but with a breather and a grease hole.

 

[dankilb]

We’ve got a very similar boat (‘89 Jeanneau Voyage 12.5) - re-engined with a Beta 50 in 2012 by the previous owner.

The Beta 50 is perhaps a bit large, but I’m not complaining!

Based on the amount of work I’ve had to un-/re-do, the new engine was basically ‘dropped in’ and hooked up to the old Hurth gearbox, existing exhaust, shaft/stuffing box etc.

I’ve since fitted a dripless seal (as suggested above), replaced the exhaust, ordered a ‘high-rise crossover’ exhaust mixed from Beta, and am re-plumbing everything.

Let me know if you’d like pics etc. I’ll be at the boat this Friday

 

[joyfull]

We’ve got a very similar boat (‘89 Jeanneau Voyage 12.5) - re-engined with a Beta 50 in 2012 by the previous owner.

The Beta 50 is perhaps a bit large, but I’m not complaining!

Based on the amount of work I’ve had to un-/re-do, the new engine was basically ‘dropped in’ and hooked up to the old Hurth gearbox, existing exhaust, shaft/stuffing box etc.

I’ve since fitted a dripless seal (as suggested above), replaced the exhaust, ordered a ‘high-rise crossover’ exhaust mixed from Beta, and am re-plumbing everything.

Let me know if you’d like pics etc. I’ll be at the boat this Friday

That could be useful. At present looking to use the existing exhaust system if suitable and the existing engine controls, though with new cables.

 

[dankilb]

That could be useful. At present looking to use the existing exhaust system if suitable and the existing engine controls, though with new cables.

Okay - will update on here over the weekend. But it is still largely 'disconnected' so might not give the best impression of the exhaust and control cable hookups yet. I'm aiming to have it all re-plumbed and working before Xmas... In turn, with no pipes/hoses in the way, you get a pretty good sense just of how it fits in!

On the exhaust, the Beta mixed is 2inch but the Perkins is 2.5. The initial installation (by a Beta main dealer!) addressed this by wrapping some old hose around the Beta mixer to bring it up to size. As a result it leaked and destroyed one of the engine mounts (not cheap!). So I've sourced an epoxy reducer from ASAP to fit between the engine and the waterlock (thus keeping the existing exhaust components - although I'm still replacing the hoses).

They did fit new control cables on ours, but I'm not sure whether the throttle cable runs to the same place as the Perkins (on the Beta it is stbd side at the very front of the engine). We've got the existing gearbox, for which the installers fabricated a very basic bracket to fix the cable off the aft stbd side of the Beta.

The Beta exhaust comes out to port and on ours didn't allow the specified amount of fall between the waterlock (30cm IIRC), so I've ordered Beta's 'high rise cross-over' elbow to add some height and take it more neatly over the stbd. The cabinetry for the aft bunks would otherwise get in the way of any other of their high rise options. The crossover, however, takes a sharp bend over the stbd just clearing the joinery.

Other than that it fits in very neatly with what looks like very minimal modification from the existing mounting points, as Bobc suggests above ?

 

[joyfull]

Okay - will update on here over the weekend. But it is still largely 'disconnected' so might not give the best impression of the exhaust and control cable hookups yet. I'm aiming to have it all re-plumbed and working before Xmas... In turn, with no pipes/hoses in the way, you get a pretty good sense just of how it fits in!

On the exhaust, the Beta mixed is 2inch but the Perkins is 2.5. The initial installation (by a Beta main dealer!) addressed this by wrapping some old hose around the Beta mixer to bring it up to size. As a result it leaked and destroyed one of the engine mounts (not cheap!). So I've sourced an epoxy reducer from ASAP to fit between the engine and the waterlock (thus keeping the existing exhaust components - although I'm still replacing the hoses).

They did fit new control cables on ours, but I'm not sure whether the throttle cable runs to the same place as the Perkins (on the Beta it is stbd side at the very front of the engine). We've got the existing gearbox, for which the installers fabricated a very basic bracket to fix the cable off the aft stbd side of the Beta.

The Beta exhaust comes out to port and on ours didn't allow the specified amount of fall between the waterlock (30cm IIRC), so I've ordered Beta's 'high rise cross-over' elbow to add some height and take it more neatly over the stbd. The cabinetry for the aft bunks would otherwise get in the way of any other of their high rise options. The crossover, however, takes a sharp bend over the stbd just clearing the joinery.

Other than that it fits in very neatly with what looks like very minimal modification from the existing mounting points, as Bobc suggests above ?

Planning to plumb into the existing exhaust so your notes about the reducer are helpful. Yard are going to undertake the install, probably in January or February when the new engine is delivered. I just want to be up to speed on all the implications such as where the gear control cable leads, the exhaust, adjusting the feathering prop from Left to right, new shaft seal etc.

So all comments very much appreciated.

 

[dankilb]

The engine has been de-commissioned for a year or so - much of that time it has been wrapped in plastic and (still!) gathering fibreglass dust. The photos show some of the glasswork in close proximity (new shaft log, relocating through-hulls, even reinforcing the engine bearers, etc.). But that said, I'm rather ashamed of its current appearance in the photos!!!

So assuming the Sun Legende has a similar sized compartment, you can see that overall space is no issue:

It fits nicely on the existing engine bearers. The iroko blocks have been used to raise the engine mounts up about 25mm/30mm. I could feel the old mounting holes are still there underneath - within a few cms at the front.

Clearance aft might be a bigger challenge - particular in terms of the exhaust mixer. The standard straight (alloy) Beta mixer fits fine, but doesn't leave the specified height between the water lock as mentioned above. Beta are very helpful, as everyone says on here, and provided me with technical drawings of the crossover mixed via email. With no exhaust/mixer fitted (it should go pretty much where the steel rule is), you can see there isn't much room between the cabinetry. And you need a few cms at least to avoid setting it on fire!

Throttle cable runs to the front/stbd side. Not sure where it is on the M50 as I've never seen one up close:

And here you can see the very basic bracket that the installers look to have fabricated themselves to mount the gearbox cable (I've just offered it up here). I'm not sure what was there before (or why it couldn't be re-used). I think the Beta gearboxes all have the selector on the opposite side anyway.

 

[joyfull]

Thank you for the info.

Sounds like I need to check the Perkins vs Beta 43 exhaust diameter and the orientation of engine and gearbox controls.

 

[dankilb]

Thank you for the info.

Sounds like I need to check the Perkins vs Beta 43 exhaust diameter and the orientation of engine and gearbox controls.

?? ... plus make sure you’ve got clearance aft for the exhaust elbow/mixer. Beta (or your dealer) will supply technical drawings and the yard should want to check this anyway. Let us know what you decide. Reckon more owners will be looking at these Beta models as the Perkins get longer in the tooth.

 

[Steve_N]

By the way, the Beta43 and 50 with the standard TMC60 reverse gear can run LH-ahead if you specify the optional (gearbox) oil cooler which only adds £100 or so to the price.

 

[Bobc]

I had to reduce the exhaust diameter too. I found someone on ebay who made me a stainless reducer which I put between the engine and the waterlock. It was made as a car exhaust reducer (so made in 304 stainless), but it works perfectly.