Replace or chance it?

[richardbayle]

Surya is 10 years old next month, and I am having suggestions out here that the insurance company won’t pay if, God forbid, the mast should fail unless I have he rigging changed. I have asked the insurance company and they say they have no specific requirements other than that the boat should conform to the manufacturers requirements. The manufacturer won’t offer any opinion as Hunter went bust and was taken over by another company, who offer no assistance in respect of boats made before their involvement. The fact that the new company is a phoenix outfit with similar shareholders etc. obviously doesn’t count. The way of the world I guess.
Anyway, what do you think? Do I take the chance and leave it or renew? I have heard horror stories out here (I live in Guadeloupe) about replacement rigging failing as it is often made from Chinese s/s instead of German. I have checked the provenance of my current rigging and it is German, which is reputedly the best. Not sure if that is not just prejudiced opinion though.

 

[stevebrassett]

I cannot offer advice, but I replaced my S/S rigging after 15 years, but it is lightly used. I always regularly check it (not always proof against failure, as S/S can fail suddenly). My insurance company expect the boat to be kept in a seaworthy condition.

 

[CCJ]

what does your policy wording say in exclusions

 

[moomba]

You get a professional rigger to have a good look at your boat and they should be able to provide a certificate that the insurance company is happy with , the 10 year old rigg syndrome, is misinterpretation , as I think most insures just need your rig checked professionally and parts placed were necessary.

 

[lw395]

I suspect a 'professional rig check' will just say 'that isn't new, you may want to change it'

FWIW, I've had two racing dinghies shrouds lose strands at 12 and 13 years old. 3mm Dyform, spending most of its life lightly tensioned, getting tensioned a couple of times a week for racing. The 10 year lifespan is probably conservative for yacht rigging, but it doesn't last forever.
You might push it to 15 years, but do you feel lucky?
Maybe it's better to change it and feel secure for 10 years rather than worry, then relent and change it in a couple of years?
People who tell you not to change it will make themselves scarce if the mast comes down.
Metal fatigue is a very funny thing.

 

[pawl]

hi, I think that you are asking a question that is almost impossible to answer. I have been involved with 2 boats where the rigging has failed, one in the storm of 1987 when the mast came down and once sailing in the Solent when a shroud failed. In neither instance did the wire fail, in the first case it was a bottle screw that failed and in the second it was a substantial deck fitting. I don't think that either of these items would normally have been replaced during a routine re-rigging. Stainless steel, particularly 316, seems to be prone to sudden failure for no good reason, but I would have thought that with the wire that it would be unlikely that all the strands fail at once. Perhaps we might hear from someone who has had experience of the wire failing. My insurance company asked me to re-rig my present boat when I bought her in 2004 but have not mentioned it since. I had the bottle screws upgraded to a size larger at the same time. At the moment I'm thinking that perhaps the devil you know etc. However, if on close inspection, I found a broken or cracked strand in any of the wire I would replace the lot, even then I probably wouldn't feel any happier about it.

 

[Tranona]

Sounds like they are not making replacement a condition of insurance, nor having an exclusion defined by age of rig.

Therefore it is entirely your decision as to when you replace it. There seems to be little evidence that age is a factor in rig failure - or rather a specific age. There are so many factors, not least the way the boat is used, and insurers tend not to be prescriptive, but may, for example require a rig inspection or change prior to insuring for long distance sailing, or racing.

If you are concerned about your rigging suggest you have it inspected by a rigger, probably with the mast down as then all the fittings can be inspected (many failures are caused by fittings rather than wire failing). Keep the report on file for use should you make a claim in the future - plus of course follow any advice on replacement of components.

BTW doubt you will get any definitive advice from any builder or even rigging manufacturer for the reasons suggested above!

 

[lw395]

One of my dinghy shrouds, I found a broken strand after the race.
The other dinghy, I looked up and saw a broken strand at the top of the shroud.
So we tacked and headed for the beach.
By the time we got the mast down, there were two strands left.
It failed where the wire enters the swage.
Not even a particularly windy day, or using high rig tension.
Lucky to get home with carbon mast in one piece!

 

[jwilson]

Selden currently say "20,000 miles". See page 64 onwards on http://www.seldenmast.com/en/technical_info/rigging_instructions/hints_and_advice.html

I seem to remember Selden previously saying "12 years or once round the world" - but can't see that reference any more. I replaced mine at 12 years old: it had always had visual from-masthead checks annually. Modern AWB twin spreader rig. If it had been an older design with heavier rigging on a column mast I would probably have gone to 15 years at least.

There is a myth that all insurers insist it be replaced at ten years: it is a myth. Some do though so there is some truth in it.

 

[Boathook]

Selden currently say "20,000 miles". See page 64 onwards on http://www.seldenmast.com/en/technical_info/rigging_instructions/hints_and_advice.html

I seem to remember Selden previously saying "12 years or once round the world" - but can't see that reference any more. I replaced mine at 12 years old: it had always had visual from-masthead checks annually. Modern AWB twin spreader rig. If it had been an older design with heavier rigging on a column mast I would probably have gone to 15 years at least.

There is a myth that all insurers insist it be replaced at ten years: it is a myth. Some do though so there is some truth in it.

If I knew about the 20k miles I could have left my rig for another 4 years but it is being replaced shortly after 16 years.
This youtube is interesting as it is from the PBO live bit at the Beaulie boat jumble. The comments about checking the wires as they come out of the swage fitting is easy to do and seems to be where most failures take place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95tMB0xnaeQ

 

[Graham376]

My insurers past and present have been quite happy with written riggers report. Rig is now around 16 years old but at mainly 10mm is a bit over sized compared to many newer boats.

 

[Poignard]

20,000 miles, 10 years. These cannot be any more than a guess since they take no account of what stresses the rigging has been exposed to, or its size. Leisurely summer cruising is not going to stress the rigging anything like as much as sailing in violent seas and strong winds.

And there are other factors. For example, the designer of my yacht specified 3/16" diameter shrouds but I fitted 1/4". The effect of that on longevity cannot possibly be quantified. Also, how well was the rigging made up and with what materials?

All in all, I reckon there is no substitute for an inspection by someone qualified to carry it out.

 

[Tranona]

My insurers past and present have been quite happy with written riggers report. Rig is now around 16 years old but at mainly 10mm is a bit over sized compared to many newer boats.

Size is not really an issue in relation to failure as loads never get near the breaking strain of the wire. It is corrosion and failure of fittings that are the main causes of rig failure.

 

[neil_s]

I have followed the 12 years replacement rule. I asked the surveyor about it when he visited last and his comment was 'keep the receipts' which seems to indicate that evidence of care and maintenance will go a long way towards satisfying the insurance company. Mast down and up is not very expensive in our boatyard, so I do it every year to check over the wires, swages, tangs, split pins, etc.

 

[Bathdave]

I've just replaced mine this year at 16 years, the riggers who did it said (after it was done! ) it was fine and would have been good for a couple more, but thought my decision to do it was the right one.

I took the view that having stretched it out this far I was going to have to do it sooner or later so I may as well have peace of mind and benefit of it being done.

I think a full professional annual rigger inspection ( as opposed to a self inspection) is a reasonable defence against an insurance company.

Fitting failures as much as shroud failures seem to me to be a risk and I think need to be included in an inspection

 

[William_H]

I can only give an opinion based on rigging failures I have seen at our club. Yes rigging wire does fail usually at the entrance to the bottom swage. I would suggest 15 years as a max for rigging wire life. This regardless of usage or abuse. I will say however that dinghy sized wire seems more susceptible than that on larger boats. Certainly inspection is of no value and means nothing. Unless to an insurance company. ol'will

 

[dom]

Certainly inspection is of no value and means nothing. Unless to an insurance company. ol'will

Agree with the vast majority of what you say, but do you really mean that? Inspections routinely uncover cracked/bent fittings, spreader damage + mast damage at their roots, signs of corrosion, damaged/unwound forestays, degraded pins, damaged furling foils, poor rig setup, etc, etc.