Removing the rudder thingy

sailorman said:
What would you imagine stops the stock spinning within the rudder blade
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I wondered whether there might be a "square section" inside the rudder. But probably not enough grip/leverage.

sailorman said:
PM me when you find as in #10
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Probably shall be the case, so await my PM!

Rowana said:
If I was a gambling man, which I'm not, I would bet that there is some way of removing the bottom bearing from the skeg, then dropping the whole rudder and shaft down through the bottom of the hull. Might require the boat to be raised in a crane/boat lift in order to get enough height to drop it though.
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That seems to be the more supported conclusion. Looks like it's a "file 'n' scrape" job. Height is no problem as the boat is on a cradle on a trailer.



I shall report back when the dirty deed is done.

Thanks to you all.

R
 
Robert Wilson said:
I wondered whether there might be a "square section" inside the rudder. But probably not enough grip/leverage.



Probably shall be the case, so await my PM!



That seems to be the more supported conclusion. Looks like it's a "file 'n' scrape" job. Height is no problem as the boat is on a cradle on a trailer.



I shall report back when the dirty deed is done.

Thanks to you all.

R
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1/ NO there wont be, just think of the imposed loadings on a screaming reach
2/ OK - i have a fiver to the Felixstowe Rescue i am correct
 
Having re-read your original question I can't see any reason for wanting to remove the rudder. That design of rudder is bullet proof and not intended to be disassembled regularly. There is a shaft that goes from the very bottom of the blade with I guess around 25mm sticking out which sits in a bearing in the bottom of the skeg. As sailorman says it is probably a plate with a tube attached and lined with a bearing. The shaft goes through the rudder blade and has tangs welded to it to spread the load of the blade. The blade is probably 2 GRP mouldings with the shaft assembly laid in, foam filled and the 2 halves bonded together. The shaft continues out of the top and runs through a tube bonded in the boat with probably bearings top and bottom. The top of the shaft is the bit you see sticking out of the top to which the tiller is attached. The two big nuts are there to stop the rudder from dropping and the pin at the bottom fouling the bottom of the bearing.

If there is no play sideways or back and forth at the bottom or the top of the rudder and it turns smoothly and there is no clonking there is no reason to take it apart. The surveyor will have checked this, but you can easily do it yourself. Just to give you an idea of how robust this type of rudder is, I have a similar arrangement on my boat which I built myself, although mine has a removable bottom shoe because I have to drop the rudder to get the propshaft out. The top bearings in the tube are original from 1963 and the bottom bearing in the shoe was installed in 1992 and there is no wear as yet.
 
Well gentlemen, glad tidings indeed.:encouragement:

Tranona said:
Having re-read your original question I can't see any reason for wanting to remove the rudder. That design of rudder is bullet proof and not intended to be disassembled regularly.
If there is no play sideways or back and forth at the bottom or the top of the rudder and it turns smoothly and there is no clonking there is no reason to take it apart. The surveyor will have checked this, but you can easily do it yourself. .
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Firstly Tranona, your advice backs the decision I made late last night after my final YBW session for the day. I shall check to upward lift of the stock just to make sure there isn't an inordinate amount of "play". If not, then indeed, there is no reason to remove the beast.
There is only a very small amount of play on the bottom/bearing fitting, as indentified and "pased" by the surveyor.
And I follow your comment and reasoning regarding the design/build of the rudder's internal construction.

sailorman said:
1/ NO there wont be, just think of the imposed loadings on a screaming reach 2/ OK - i have a fiver to the Felixstowe Rescue i am correct
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Secondly Sailorman. I reasoned last night that there couldn't be a "loose fitting" as your scenario of a screaming reach (or big following seas, as I experienced in June off Ardnamurchan Point) would be a disaster, which hasn't happened.
So, I shall leave well alone, cross the job off the winter-work list and regretfully not be sending you a fiver!

Thank you both, and all the other folk above. Invaluable comments.:D

I had to get this issue sorted as, probably like with many other folk, once a germ of a "niggle" or worry implants in the mind then it has to be resolved or settled. No point in saying "if only" when a preventable disaster happens on the deep blue, bumpy stuff!
Now, turn to page two of sixty of the list
 
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Robert, I'm glad that you have solved your rudder problem, but I'm still wondering what you meant with, "the stock is loose in the shaft"
 
sailorman said:
I did say non jobs ;)
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Well, perhaps they might all turn out to be non-jobs, after taking advice from "the wise ones"!:encouragement:

NormanS said:
Robert, I'm glad that you have solved your rudder problem, but I'm still wondering what you meant with, "the stock is loose in the shaft"
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sailorman said:
possibly "stock is loose in tube"
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That is exactly what I meant.
Ignorance of correct terminology, engineering principles and sheer confusion drove me to talking degrees of codswallop!!:rolleyes:
 
Just in case you want to discuss other items about the Javelin 30 mpricehugh of these forums also has a Javelin and may be able to answer questions via these threads or PM.

The Javelin was my first experience of 'big boat' racing from a Merlin Rocket and nearly as wet to windward, but fast for her year and a good sound Fredk R Parker design(he was also a fellow club member).

ianat182
 
Robert Wilson said:
That's a seriously good link, and also explains what is most likely "down there" Thank you VERY MUCH.

I shall print-off the link and keep it in my "what if" file!

Cheers,

Robert

Happy New Year to you, and great sailing in 2014, and beyond - I hope "work" doesn't get in the way!
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Thanks,I will have to put up with the distraction of work for another few years.

Cheers and happy new year and good sailing to all.:very_drunk:
 
Rowana said:
If I was a gambling man, which I'm not, I would bet that there is some way of removing the bottom bearing from the skeg, then dropping the whole rudder and shaft down through the bottom of the hull. Might require the boat to be raised in a crane/boat lift in order to get enough height to drop it though.
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I don't know about Javelins, but on a Snapdragon, the "some way of removing..." is an angle grinder.
 
Stemar said:
I don't know about Javelins, but on a Snapdragon, the "some way of removing..." is an angle grinder.
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Aye, That's about it, I fear. Pity, looks so neat and tiddly at the mo.
Think I'll leave well alone. Checked it today, and satisfied myself that any/all movement is very definitely minimal.

Still have a wee wobble when I think about my "three fears" - mast, keel & rudder.:eek:
 
I had no choice - there was a centimetre of play at the bottom bearing and, sooner or later, it was going to come adrift. I chopped the "toe" of the skeg off and had a stainless shoe made with a new bearing to fit, screwed the shoe to the remains of the skeg & glassed it over. At least, that was the plan and it was going beautifully until I went to put the rudder back, and the rudder tube disintegrated.

Now that was a nasty job, involving wielding the angle grinder whilst curled up in the space between the lazarette and the engine, 10 years older and less agile, I'm not sure I could get in there now :(, but a lump of the windsurfer mast I found lying around in the club compound could have been made for the job.
 
Stemar said:
I had no choice - there was a centimetre of play at the bottom bearing and, sooner or later, it was going to come adrift. I chopped the "toe" of the skeg off and had a stainless shoe made with a new bearing to fit, screwed the shoe to the remains of the skeg & glassed it over. At least, that was the plan and it was going beautifully until I went to put the rudder back, and the rudder tube disintegrated.

Now that was a nasty job, involving wielding the angle grinder whilst curled up in the space between the lazarette and the engine, 10 years older and less agile, I'm not sure I could get in there now :(, but a lump of the windsurfer mast I found lying around in the club compound could have been made for the job.
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Thank you, sir! You do my self-confidence no end of harm........................;)
 
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