Removing RED diesel stain

[Champagne Murphy]

So after the recent ECJ decision to reject the HMRC derogation on leisure use of red diesel and being as how we are based on the East coast, I‘ve decided to go white. At least that way we’ll have the ability to visit the Continent without fear of fines. Of course that means cleaning the system thoroughly to avoid ‘pink’ diesel.
The intention is to change all the pipes and filters and flush the system through 3/4/5 times but what to do about staining on the tank walls/inside of the CAV filter/lift pump etc etc? Is there any way of making this easier eg acetone or meths or petrol or whatever other that spraying down the walls of the tank and then running the engine with the return going into waste?

 

[pvb]

I don't think there's any need to change the pipes. Just drain, replace filters, flush once or twice with white, then get on with life. Any continental inspection is likely to be visual, and there'll be no problem.

This old thread might be worth a look - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?305555-Removing-red-dye-from-your-fuel-system

 

[Praxinoscope]

Just wondering what is the likelyhood of having our diesel checked in Ireland.

 

[Hoolie]

I would say from our experience the red dye will flush through completely in five or six re-fills. Could be a longer term problem if you never motor anywhere though

 

[lpdsn]

Just wondering what is the likelyhood of having our diesel checked in Ireland.

I think the Irish government pretty much took the same view as the UK that the cost and effort involved wasn't worth it for the revenue generated, but now they will be forced to follow suit, especially as Ireland is staying in the EU. We'll have to wait and see how much effort they put into policing the use of green diesel in 'pleasure' craft. Their main focus will probably still be against diesel laundering near the border where the volumes and lost revenue dwarf anything they'd make from boats.

 

[duncan99210]

There is a minimum value for the level of red dye that is found in diesel which must be exceeded before action can be taken. Once a tank has been emptied and refilled the levels of dye remaining in the tank will be well below the levels required for legal action to be taken. No need to clean tanks or flush pipe work.

 

[Laysula]

There is a minimum value for the level of red dye that is found in diesel which must be exceeded before action can be taken. Once a tank has been emptied and refilled the levels of dye remaining in the tank will be well below the levels required for legal action to be taken. No need to clean tanks or flush pipe work.

Is that in the UK or France or Belgium? Do you have any evidence?

 

[rotrax]

I have a 900 litre tank.

Last year I took 400 litres of Irish green diesel.

Mixed with the 500 ish litres of UK red diesel already in the tank, it went brown.

What shall I do?

Worried of Gosport.

 

[PCUK]

Haven't you heard of Brexit? As we are leaving next year, there is no issue as we will again be a sovereign country and the EU will have no say in our internal affairs.

 

[chrishscorp]

Haven't you heard of Brexit? As we are leaving next year, there is no issue as we will again be a sovereign country and the EU will have no say in our internal affairs.

Some of us are intending to visit Europe with our boats after brexit and dont wish to be fined, their waters their laws

 

[duncan99210]

Is that in the UK or France or Belgium? Do you have any evidence?

It’s in the regulations about marked diesel, which apply throughout the EU. Dig it up for yourself if you don’t believe me.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Some of us are intending to visit Europe with our boats after brexit and dont wish to be fined, their waters their laws

I have heard everything from you can never get rid of it, to a single flush. Come up to Scotland, the booze may not be cheap but we have deep fried food to die for.

 

[sailorman]

I don't think there's any need to change the pipes. Just drain, replace filters, flush once or twice with white, then get on with life. Any continental inspection is likely to be visual, and there'll be no problem.

This old thread might be worth a look - http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?305555-Removing-red-dye-from-your-fuel-system

Plus there is a low % trace allowable. i would look that up

 

[Daydream believer]

This is a quote from Maby in 2012 on the MOBO forum

"I was reading the directive yesterday, together with all the supporting documentation. The standard laboratory test for the red diesel marker has a defined cut-off point of 0.12mg per litre of fuel - below that, it is regarded as unreliable. The marking rules specify a maximum level of 9mg per litre at the pump.

So, if you have a 100 litre tank, you should be safe with anything under 12mg of marker in it. That translates to a bit more than a litre of marked fuel at the maximum marking dosage. So, if you run your 100 litre tank down to about 10 litres, then part fill it with white and repeat three or four times before completely filling with white, you should be ok."

I have no reason to believe he had the 0.12 mg wrong although his assertions in the second paragraph may be open to discussion.

I emptied my tank, Wiped it clean, Changed the filters, & using an in line pump I remembered to flush the return pipe from the injectors as this was full of red as well.

I am surprised at some owners only using small amounts of fuel. Cruising along the French & Belgian coasts I find that I use the engine for a good 25% of the time to meet tidal gates etc
2 years ago I cruised from Bradwell to Camaret & only managed 14 hours of true sailing due to either head winds or no winds. this year was the opposite; but going in and out of port I still needed minm .75 hour in & the same out as I was single handed. 20 ports * 1.5 = 30 hours = 60 Litres straight away.
On my Dutch trip this year I had to motor 85 miles from Ostend in zero wind. (not to mention up the Dutch canals)
Do those that use no fuel sit on the mooring all the time?
The difference in cost between red & white does add up over a year.

 

[KAL]

Some of us are intending to visit Europe with our boats after brexit and dont wish to be fined, their waters their laws

I wonder if, as a “foreign” visitor from a sovereign nation, a vessel would be subject to “their” laws or to the law that pertains in the country of origin (ie the UK, for instance). For example, visiting vessels originating from outside the EU don’t have to prove VAT paid or conform to RCD? Does this mean that vessels from outside the EU using marked fuel would be exempt, unless they stay longer than a proscribed period?

 

[Graham376]

I have a 900 litre tank. Last year I took 400 litres of Irish green diesel. Mixed with the 500 ish litres of UK red diesel already in the tank, it went brown. What shall I do? Worried of Gosport.

You could try telling them there was a leak from the holding tank

Any country visited will know that UK boats have historically used red diesel so won't be surprised if there's a faint pink tinge to fuel. Maybe best to carry a can or two of white and run the tank very low and then top up from cans until proper fill.

 

[maby]

I wonder if, as a “foreign” visitor from a sovereign nation, a vessel would be subject to “their” laws or to the law that pertains in the country of origin (ie the UK, for instance). For example, visiting vessels originating from outside the EU don’t have to prove VAT paid or conform to RCD? Does this mean that vessels from outside the EU using marked fuel would be exempt, unless they stay longer than a proscribed period?

It's a fuzzy area of law. The convention is that we allow foreign vehicles (including boats) to go about their business without seeking to enforce local laws on the fuel they are carrying, but I don't think this is formalised in international law. As I understand it, the convention was introduced primarily with aviation in mind - there had been cases of accidents or near accidents caused by pilots letting their aircraft run low on fuel rather than be penalised by local laws. There was a case a few years ago of the German authorities fining a US private boat for having marked fuel in its tanks when it arrived in a German port despite the fact that the fuel had been legally purchased in the USA. That went to appeal and I've not heard the outcome.

It is certainly a gross oversimplification to say that, simply because an item was legal where I purchased it, I should be allowed to bring it into another country. You certainly could not turn up at Heathrow with an assault rifle in your luggage and tell the police that they had to let you bring it in because you purchased it legally in America - and I would not recommend that you try turning up at a Saudi port in your boat with a bilge full of bottles of Scotch which you legally purchased here.

 

[Champagne Murphy]

Worse still, any form of opiate derived drug, either in your luggage OR your bloodstream. There are examples of people arriving (they may even have been in transit) who took codeine for back pain before travelling and they still got nicked. The Scotch they’d probably just, ahem, ”confiscate”.

 

[LadyInBed]

I believe that you also have a problem in Spanish waters if found with any of the Co-whatever painkillers onboard.

 

[[70521]]

I am surprised at some owners only using small amounts of fuel. Cruising along the French & Belgian coasts I find that I use the engine for a good 25% of the time to meet tidal gates etc
2 years ago I cruised from Bradwell to Camaret & only managed 14 hours of true sailing due to either head winds or no winds. this year was the opposite; but going in and out of port I still needed minm .75 hour in & the same out as I was single handed. 20 ports * 1.5 = 30 hours = 60 Litres straight away.
On my Dutch trip this year I had to motor 85 miles from Ostend in zero wind. (not to mention up the Dutch canals)
Do those that use no fuel sit on the mooring all the time?
The difference in cost between red & white does add up over a year.

I am one of those who don't use much fuel, but if I am going on a long trip I pop a couple of 20l jerry cans onboard and stand well offshore on a tidal gate.

I don't see much difference in price between red and white, perhaps I am not going to the right places.