Removeable inner forestay - Advice please

[Gitane]

I am considering getting an removable inner forestay rigged up on a Westerly Griffon, which is a 26 ft yacht. It will be attached near the top of the mast and will terminate near the genoa furler, so hopefully no backstays would be required.

There seem to be three options on how to attach the foot of the forestay to the deck. Which one of the three would be the best solution, or is there another option I have not considered?

1) A Highfield lever
2) A 4:1 block and tackle arrangement
3) A pelican hook type device.


Reading through past threads, I understand that Highfield lever provides a good solution, but are fiddly to attach when on a deck of a yacht in any kind of wind and sea. A block and tackle is apparently easier to rig on a bouncy deck and also maybe a cheaper solution. A pelican hook device is the simplest to rig, as it less fiddly than the other two solutions, but it is not really made as a forestay solution and thus could fail.

Which one should I go for?

 

[Phildorset]

My Django (6.7M from Maree Haute) has a dynema stay + additional line to allow tensioning on the cockpit winches, cleverly this is set up so as to allow the whole thing to be kept at the mast until needed and then pulled forward and tensioned without leaving the cockpit, but of course you still have to go and attach your sail. The Django 7.70 has the same arrangement - so I'd think it could be a neat answer on your boat too?

 

[BabaYaga]

is there another option I have not considered?

I use a normal bottle screw with the addition of 'handles', see photo below.
One advantage of this approach is that you can get good tension of the stay.
Important if choosing this method is, in my view, to choose a way of attachment that doesn't produce a lot of slack to take up.
One mine I get full tension of the stay by twelve turns of the bottle screw, it takes about 45 seconds.

 

[syTaika]

I have 5 to 1 tackle made of a low friction ring attached to the dyneema stay and a ring bolt that is fixed to the deck.
The takle rope is dyneema with a loop at the end. After installing it is attached to a normal rope that is routed to a genoa winch. Works well.

 

[CCJ]

I am considering getting an removable inner forestay rigged up on a Westerly Griffon, which is a 26 ft yacht. It will be attached near the top of the mast and will terminate near the genoa furler, so hopefully no backstays would be required.

There seem to be three options on how to attach the foot of the forestay to the deck. Which one of the three would be the best solution, or is there another option I have not considered?

1) A Highfield lever
2) A 4:1 block and tackle arrangement
3) A pelican hook type device.


Reading through past threads, I understand that Highfield lever provides a good solution, but are fiddly to attach when on a deck of a yacht in any kind of wind and sea. A block and tackle is apparently easier to rig on a bouncy deck and also maybe a cheaper solution. A pelican hook device is the simplest to rig, as it less fiddly than the other two solutions, but it is not really made as a forestay solution and thus could fail.

Which one should I go for?

Just one question, Why

 

[Gitane]

Just one question, Why

Good question.

I would like a forestay so that I can attach either a storm jib or rig an additional foresail to provide a dual foresail arrangement for prolonged periods of downwind sailing.

The forestay has to be removable, else when using the genoa from the furler, the forestay, if permanently in place, would get in the way when tacking the genoa.

 

[merlin3688]

A Highfield lever makes it easy to remove but expensive, seasure I think make them in 2 sizes, one up to 6mm wire and one up to 8mm. You are correct about the fitting on the mast, needs to be near the top, within a couple of foot to avoid running backstays. Not sure what fitting you are fitting to the mast but Selden do a neat pad that has a removable eye for easy assembly. Hope this helps.

 

[PlankWalker]

Bottle screw with handles is the way I prefer, but most important thing to consider with a Removeable inner forestay is where and how to park it, as it will be parked more often than it is used. Better for it to fit the parked position than the working position.

 

[neil_s]

I went for a pelican hook device, but I had to have it made especially since those I looked at did not tension the wire or have adequate working load.
Plankwalker's comment above is to the point - mine parks with the pelican hook at an eye plate but needs a bit of extra chain when deployed!
If you would like the drawing I could e-mail it to you and your local stainless steel fabricator could make it.

 

[sailor211]

I had a highfield leaver. To get good tension I was concerned I would loose a finger if not careful . Changed it did a hook and wheel.
If I could get a line to a winch I would consider a simple wire halyard . On a contessa we could exceed the fotstay tension .

I use the inner forestay for 1: no3 blade, working to windward in 20 to 35 knots.
Ghoster 2-12 knots apparent 150% made from spinnaker material

The extreams where thefurling genoa is not the h best.

 

[Yngmar]

Wichard makes big pelican hooks designed and rated for removable stays, with integrated tensioners. We have the ratchet handle version on our inner forestay. Works very well, easy to rig, but the price is hefty.

http://marine.wichard.com/menu-Babystay_adjusters-0202010100000000-ME.html

 

[Brent Swain]

A pelican hook in the bottom jaws of a turnbuckle gives you the best of both. A ring sliding down the turnbuckle secures it.

 

[William_H]

I use a high field lever for the main fore stay on my 21fter very successfully. I made the high field lever from bits of SS plate.
Although not the case with my set up which is only operated when raising or lowering mast you need ahigh field lever attached to the stay. You need a deck fitting which stands up of it's own accord such that you can easily take the forestay and high field lever in one hand and locate a fork over a saddle then fit in a pin. You might consider a long home made pin with a point to ease entry alignment and perhaps a small pin to fit in to keep it in place. As said you need to be able to attach it with ease in a rough sea. Pelican hooks (as used for life lines) should not be discounted. I have seen them used on a 20 ft trailer sailor as main forestay attachment. olewill

 

[jwilson]

Bottle screw with handles is the way I prefer, but most important thing to consider with a Removeable inner forestay is where and how to park it, as it will be parked more often than it is used. Better for it to fit the parked position than the working position.

As Plankwalker says, it will probably be mostly unused.

For that reason I made mine with a removable block and tackle with snapshackles such that the wire bit would "park" taut against shrouds: usually the wire section with highfield lever leaves loose wire. Also I now have a good and potentially useful easily deployed lifting aid.

 

[GrahamM376]

Ours has the large SeaSure lever ( https://www.sea-sure.co.uk/configproduct/inner-forestay-lever ) and it's a PITA to rig single handed in anything but flat calm. The usual way of parking is to cut the stay for its parked length, in our case to the toe rail. There is a permanently attached short section fixed to a U bolt on the stem fitting and it's very difficult to join the two together, having to hold the short section in one hand, 47 ft of swinging stay in the other and get the pin in to join them. In practice, it needs two people or, rigging in advance. I keep meaning to modify it by having the short section loose so it can first be pinned to the lever and then attached to the deck fitting by a pelican hook or similar.

 

[westhinder]

I wonder whether a Highfield lever alone can get enough tension on the stay.
Our removable stay has a Highfield lever, but before I can attach it, I have to slacken off the backstay and then reapply tension on the backstay to get the forestay as tight as it should be

 

[merlin3688]

This is what Sailspar used to supply with all masts that had a inner Forestay, worked very well.
https://www.sea-sure.co.uk/configproduct/inner-forestay-lever

 

[jwilson]

I wonder whether a Highfield lever alone can get enough tension on the stay.
Our removable stay has a Highfield lever, but before I can attach it, I have to slacken off the backstay and then reapply tension on the backstay to get the forestay as tight as it should be

On a flexible rig you may have to do that whatever attachment you use. For a storm jib usage absolute bar-tightness is not essential: the stay is mostly there to stop the wild jerking/flogging as you hoist: you will be tightening the storm jib halyard enough to set it. If your inner forestay is for a working sized sail then obviously a really taut stay matters more.

 

[lampshuk]

Drifter has a Highfield Lever (I forget which manufacturer) to tension a removable forestay rigged as you propose.

It is fiddly to fit to the short strop on the bow roller fitting, but I like GrahamM376's suggestion to put the strop on the stay when removing from park, then attach to the stemhead with something a bit less fiddly (eg shackle).

I've nothing against the block-and-tackle approach. This is just what the rigger recommended (yes, I know, possibly no coincidence it's also the most expensive hardware) and seems to work.

I would not be without it, for "No2 Jib/Storm Jib" conditions - which for me can mean anything above F4 when trying to hack upwind.
I also added an additional genoa track on each side (courtesy of Beaulieu Boat Jumble) to make it easier to pre-rig jib sheets.
I haven't tried double-headsailing using the stay. Drifter's forestay foil has 2 tracks, so my "plan" would be to fly the baggy old genoa and the new one doubled up on the same foil.
That would be a scarey amount of Dacron, though. In theory they should both be able to furl/reef at the same time, but I have my doubts whether the drum (or me, for that matter) would be up to the job. I did once try to un-furl the genoa when the removable stay was still rigged, and the top swivel fouled the removable forestay, so you might need to plan on always dropping the hanked sail before furling the one on the furler.

I have flown genoa and coaster on a couple of occasions, polled out either side. Again, definitely a rig to use when you have high confidence of low wind strength!

 

[laika]

On a flexible rig you may have to do that whatever attachment you use. For a storm jib usage absolute bar-tightness is not essential: the stay is mostly there to stop the wild jerking/flogging as you hoist: you will be tightening the storm jib halyard enough to set it. If your inner forestay is for a working sized sail then obviously a really taut stay matters more.

This was the advice I got when researching this. If it's just for a storm jib you have lots of options but the insanely expensive highfield lever comes into its own to get the tension required to make best use of a heavy weather jib upwind. For me this is only received wisdom as, thankfully, I've only ever had to deploy a storm jib on a boat with hanked on sails and have never tried rigging a #3 on any inner forestay other than my own.

Wichard makes big pelican hooks designed and rated for removable stays, with integrated tensioners. We have the ratchet handle version on our inner forestay. Works very well, easy to rig, but the price is hefty.

"Hefty" is an understatement. I thought this was the 3rd most expensive thing I'd ever bought (after a boat and one of my motorcycles) but I realise that there's a few other boat bits which trumped it (engine, mainsail, genoa).