Registro Italiano Navale - Breaking News

[toad_oftoadhall]

It's fascinating to me why you guys feel so threatened by this story...

Me too.

In the last thread which we now have access to, the validity of the Rina certification was deemed very important by a fair number of people.

Now we get close to finding out $5000 was paid to Rina the same people want the story shut down.

People who will use any stick to beat Rocna suddenly want something damaging to Rocna hidden. It's fishy.

Never mind. Grant's not been silenced by anyone so far. I have no doubt he'll come through with the means to verify this.

 

[evm1024]

If you don't have a court order SDSU.

+1 to get off Grants back.

That he gives you anything is astounding to me based on the tone of some of the posts I've read. That he does should be treated with the greatest of respect and is a tribute to his character.

The whole notion that anyone owes you or that you have a right to information is absurd.

I would ask that you stop the hounding - the baying is making me deaf to this topic.

 

[evm1024]

Note:

I did not say stop looking for info. I said be respectful.

 

[BrianH]

It's fascinating to me why you guys feel so threatened by this story...to the point that you're willing to spin Grant's statements into something different than what he actually wrote.

Is sole attention on the "Holdfast trickery" really so important to you? Why?

I suppose it's because I bought an early, NZ Rocna anchor and, because I was so satisfied with its performance, strongly recommended it to others. They then bought sub-standard ones and I feel somehow responsible. Coupled with that I see someone who I believe is the prime perpetrator for that situation continuing to be involved in the latest incarnation of the product, which just doesn't seem fair, especially when I have read of the skulduggery invoked against Grant by that same person.

I have no other reasons nor do I have any business connections whatsoever. I certainly am not "threatened" in any way, I'm just a retired old fart who likes to go sailing, safely, and I'd like my friends to do so too.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I see someone who I believe is the prime perpetrator for that situation continuing to be involved in the latest incarnation of the product, which just doesn't seem fair, especially when I have read of the skulduggery invoked against Grant by that same person.

Yet you are vocal in a desire to see that person's wrong-doing in realtion to the bribery issue concealed. It's madness and makes no sense.

The only way it makes sense is if the people having a pop at Rocna are stooges from other firms who want Rocna attacked but fear Rina certification being de-valued because their products have it.

Let's face it the 420-gate scandal has been out for months.

The Rocna-Rina story is utterly fresh.

Grant's no fool. He's released all the info he has on 420-gate. It's made the press.

Now he's broken the Bribery story.

All part of the drip-drip plan.

If he wanted it covered up he wouldn't have mentioned it.

 

[BrianH]

Yet you are vocal in a desire to see that person's wrong-doing in realtion to the bribery issue concealed. It's madness and makes no sense.

Don't put such intention in my message, of course I don't want anything concealed. I just think it is a trivial occurrence of some goodwill 'presents' being distributed; maybe a few invitations, it happens all the time.

 

[smackdaddy]

I suppose it's because I bought an early, NZ Rocna anchor and, because I was so satisfied with its performance, strongly recommended it to others. They then bought sub-standard ones and I feel somehow responsible. Coupled with that I see someone who I believe is the prime perpetrator for that situation continuing to be involved in the latest incarnation of the product, which just doesn't seem fair, especially when I have read of the skulduggery invoked against Grant by that same person.

I have no other reasons nor do I have any business connections whatsoever. I certainly am not "threatened" in any way, I'm just a retired old fart who likes to go sailing, safely, and I'd like my friends to do so too.

Okay - the issue of your feeling somewhat guilty for inadvertently pulling your friends into Rocna's apparent deception, thereby putting them at risk, makes perfect sense to me (although I certainly wouldn't hold you responsible in that situation). You and your friends were victims of what appears to be a complete breach of trust and your anger is perfectly understandable.

But think about that for a moment. The reason this bribery allegation is such a big issue (regardless of amounts) is precisely because of your last sentence. RINA is one of the primary international organizations who assure you and your friends (and global corporations) as to what is really "safe" or "unsafe", "good quality" or "bad quality", and even "ethical" or "unethical". If they have indeed solicited and accepted bribes for promised assurances - how is this less an issue than the breach of trust by Holdfast/Rocna and/or perceived lack of "consequences" for Bambury?

I certainly can't make you care about this issue. On the other hand, I certainly fail to see how it's a "non-event" that deserves muzzling because it "diverts attention" from what I personally see as (in relative terms) a less significant matter.

Note:

I did not say stop looking for info. I said be respectful.

Have I been disrespectful?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Don't put such intention in my message, of course I don't want anything concealed.

Sorry, as you say, you didn't say concealed at all. I was reading words that weren't there. My bad.

I just think it is a trivial occurrence of some goodwill 'presents' being distributed; maybe a few invitations, it happens all the time.

If $5000 non-bribe goodwill presents are being routinely given to people certifying safety gear I want to know. I won't be the only one.

 

[evm1024]

Snip!


Have I been disrespectful?

Yes, at times. From my view the glee and energy put into this is offensive. For me it is more along the lines of the contrast between asking questions and demanding answers.

Regards

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Toady and SD,

This really is getting to be quite bizzarre. Both of you seem to have made your minds up that there is some massive story about RINA which calls into question the whole organisations integrity. Despite all your questioning, acres of cutting and pasting, and theory upon theory, you have come up with nothing more than was widely available sometime ago.

The only story is that Rocna wanted to bribe somebody at RINA to either get approval faster or to encourage the issue of certificates. From what we have been told we have to assume that somebody did receive, in some form, an innappropriate inducement. That shouldn't have happened and, again from what we have been told, action was taken by RINA against that individual.

However, no certificate was issued and no approval was given. That shows me that the RINA system has been robust enough to ensure that wrongdoing would not enable a company such as Rocna to get unwarranted certification.

There was, however, a pretty meaningless "Statement" issued by RINA. This was miss-represented by Rocna to be a Certificate of Approval. It wasn't, but it was Rocna who was at fault here, not RINA.

As my avatar shows, the story is all about Rocna. There has probably been some minor, innappropriate conduct by one employee at RINA but the organisation itself remains unblemished and you have failed to bring anything to the table which shows otherwise.

Nobody feels "threatened" by your theories. Nobody has changed tack in their view of Rocnas shenanigins. You have simply failed to make a case for the "massive story" against RINA. I remain convinced that there is no case for them to answer.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Both of you seem to have made your minds up that there is some massive story about RINA which calls into question the whole organisations integrity.

There is. Well, there's a claim, anyway.

Despite all your questioning, acres of cutting and pasting, and theory upon theory, you have come up with nothing more than was widely available sometime ago.

I agree. A total absence of verifiable evidence.

From what we have been told we have to assume that somebody did receive, in some form, an innappropriate inducement.

Let's get the facts before we make assumptions, shall we?

As my avatar shows, the story is all about Rocna. There has probably been some minor, innappropriate conduct by one employee at RINA but the organisation itself remains unblemished and you have failed to bring anything to the table which shows otherwise.

Well let's find out exactly what happened before we decide who or what is blemished or unblemished.

You have simply failed to make a case for the "massive story" against RINA.

I have indeed failed to find any evidence for it. A journalist has told me he has also failed to any evidence for it. That's why it all comes back to Grant to put up some specifics & evidence. I doubt he would have made the bribery accusation if he couldn't back it up.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Yes, at times. From my view the glee and energy put into this is offensive. For me it is more along the lines of the contrast between asking questions and demanding answers.

Demanding answers?

Grant offered some answers once the trial was over. The trial is now over. (Or never began.)

Do you really think Grant's offered to post evidence when really he's not prepared to?

 

[evm1024]

Demanding answers?

Grant offered some answers once the trial was over. The trial is now over. (Or never began.)

Do you really think Grant's offered to post evidence when really he's not prepared to?

Grant does not owe you anything and in case you have not noticed has not posted very much here. Grant will offer up info as he sees fit and when he sees fit. Regardless of any badgering.

Of course I don't speak for Grant.... If someone went after me like this thread has done demanding Answers I myself would likely go mute.

Perhaps if you all let this rest a bit Grant might decide to toss something more out.....


Regards


PS When I was having my house built I took a few pounds of Russian Candy to the guys building it. The framers and cabinet guys were Russian. I admit that it was a thinly veiled bribery attempt to get a better house.

Later it turned out the the Framers told the foreman that "This House will be Built right".

Hope no one finds out.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Demanding answers?

Grant offered some answers once the trial was over. The trial is now over. (Or never began.)

Do you really think Grant's offered to post evidence when really he's not prepared to?

Can't you get it into your head? Grant is not interested in raining on RINA's parade, he is interested in highlighting the situation at Rocna.

If you want to find a RINA story you'll have to get on your bike and go and find it. I'm sure that you'll be wasting your time as there is no story, but it's up to you to support your allegations and theories, not others.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

If someone went after me like this thread has done demanding Answers I myself would likely go mute.

In which case Dr Johnson would say of EVM: "To revenge reasonable incredulity by refusing evidence, is a degree of insolence with which the world is not yet acquainted; and stubborn audacity is the last refuge of guilt".

 

[evm1024]

In which case Dr Johnson would say of EVM: "To revenge reasonable incredulity by refusing evidence, is a degree of insolence with which the world is not yet acquainted; and stubborn audacity is the last refuge of guilt".

stubborn audacity - I like that phrase.....


Are you paying attention to what Rigger is saying?

With Respect

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Can't you get it into your head? Grant is not interested in raining on RINA's parade, he is interested in highlighting the situation at Rocna.

Grant seems well aware that Rocna paying a bribe is about as stark a statement about Rocna the Rocna (well, Holdfast) situation as you can get. Why else would he raise the topic?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

stubborn audacity - I like that phrase.....
Are you paying attention to what Rigger is saying?
With Respect

With slightly less respect, yes.

 

[smackdaddy]

Yes, at times. From my view the glee and energy put into this is offensive. For me it is more along the lines of the contrast between asking questions and demanding answers.

Regards

Interesting. I've asked a lot of questions, yes, but where have I "demanded answers"?

As for "glee and energy [being] put into this offensive" - I'll just have to furrow my brow a bit on that one in light of a certain anchor thread with over 1,000 posts and 75,000 views (just one of many across the forums actually).

Finally, this is by no means an "offensive". I personally have nothing to gain or lose with this issue. I just think it's interesting and important and am looking into it to see if I can find some facts behind these allegations that have been made.

I may find something, I may not. Or someone else may, or may not. We'll see.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

Interesting. I've asked a lot of questions, yes, but where have I "demanded answers"?

As for "glee and energy [being] put into this offensive" - I'll just have to furrow my brow a bit on that one in light of a certain anchor thread with over 1,000 posts and 75,000 views (just one of many across the forums actually).

Finally, this is by no means an "offensive". I personally have nothing to gain or lose with this issue. I just think it's interesting and important and am looking into it to see if I can find some facts behind these allegations that have been made.

I may find something, I may not. Or someone else may, or may not. We'll see.

He didn't say it was an "offensive". He said that he found it to be "offensive".
Totally different.

And yes, your hectoring style amounts to "demanding answers"