Reflection 23

[Mirror Painter]

Friends of mine have one of these:

http://www.jonesboatyard.co.uk/boat-sales/reflection-23-boats-for-sale.html

They keep thinking about selling it and I keep thinking about buying it, (shh, don't tell Moxon). In many respects all it would provide over Moxon (which is a tiny, 16'9" cabin cruiser), is more expense. Plus a shower. Plus I could invite more than one or two pals aboard at a time. Plus my wife might be more enthusiastic about boating if a greater lever of comfort was provided.

It has a petrol engine with outdrive. Does that O word mean I should just not consider it? Any other thoughts? Particularly about the Reflection 23's suitability for the Thames. I can't really afford it and, call me crazy, don't think I could part with Moxon. So this would be a second boat - do I need to see a doctor?

 

[No Regrets]

The Volvo B20 engine was sound enough but watch the spares prices! You'll live the extra space though. Once again, out drive can cost loads as any fault also requires a lift out!!

Surely there are shaft drive boats available with Diesel power?

 

[Gumpy]

Nothing wrong with petrol however outdrives I would avoid.
We said no petrol origionally but the Freeman 22NB ticked all the other boxes so we relented.
Sadly Magnette is up for sale at jones as having been made redundent I wont be able to pay the fees next year

 

[Mirror Painter]

N.R. - There must be many other boats available but I 'know' this boat and really like the way there is a double berth (well cupboard thingy) under the cockpit. My son could call that his cabin and visitors of the non claustrophobic type could overnight there too.

Magnette - very sorry to hear that. You have very much focused my mind there. Moxon is so small and the mooring so modest etc etc that I don't feel keeping her is a selfish indulgence when times are hard, we have a big mortgage, my work is not secure and all that stuff. I could find the money to buy my friend's boat but think I probably shouldn't..

Thanks both.

 

[dash300]

What about that Freeman 26 we were encouraging Murv to consider if it's still available?

 

[alruss]

What outdrive is fitted? If it is 270 range, it is rated at 300hp. The B20 engine was max 120BHP so will not stress that drive at all. Routine maintenance should be all the work needed
on that drive, except damage by hitting the bottom or getting fishing line in the oil seals behind the prop. Don't let outdrive that is fitted put you off.

 

[Mirror Painter]

What outdrive is fitted? If it is 270 range, it is rated at 300hp. The B20 engine was max 120BHP so will not stress that drive at all. Routine maintenance should be all the work needed
on that drive, except damage by hitting the bottom or getting fishing line in the oil seals behind the prop. Don't let outdrive that is fitted put you off.

Just when I thought I'd talked myself out of it you say that!

I know the outdrive has been serviced every other year - alternating with the engine. This is on the upper Thames remember so no arduous work. I'll speak with my friends some more.

Thanks.

 

[apollo]

If you are boating on a budget, would avoid Outdrives. I have owned three boats in my time with legs, two were 270's and one DuoProps and i would not rush to repeat it.

Agree with the others, find a boat with shaft and diesel. May not be so modern or flash but will be kinder to your wallet.

 

[No Regrets]

Outdrives are time bombs.

Sure, even shafties have gearboxes, but they are usually encased in a heavy duty casing, and can be maintained with ease.

Outdrives are lighter in construction, and are constantly being subjected to a harsher environment, have extra hydraulics in the form of trim/ lift gear, and possibly power steering, along with the sensors required, and then the rather scary 'bellows' and seals, which can cause sudden sinking risk if they fail.

You can usually tell if your inboard gearbox is losing fluid, as it'll be in the bilges. An outdrive can lose the lot, and you'll never know until it fails!

Weak points in a shaft drive arrangement seem to be flexible joints, if fitted, and the through hull fittings, which can last a decade, although more regular replacement is desirable, whereas Outdrives weak points are many, and all will need a lift out, which is another cost and inconvenience....

Thats why shafts will all the way. Trailered boats are different of course....

 

[alruss]

Apollo suggests you stay away from outdrives, it took him three goes to come to that decision, the shaft drive still might have hydraulic steering on rudders, more holes in hull.
Shaft drive needs a lift or diver for fouled prop, outdrive lifts prop out of water. On Volvo outdrives, they don't sink if the drive bellow fails or the exhaust bellows. I am only talking
about 100 and 270 drives. Just as a matter of interest, how much does it cost to replace shaft and bearings? assuming it hasn't sunk because the bearing/shaft seal has failed.
Both drives have their pluses and minuses, I use my boat on the tidal Thames with all the rubbish floating about, with 40yr old outdrives, they have never failed to get me home, I have never needed a diver or lift out to clear the props.
I can change drive bellows on both legs between tides. I can change my props from my dingy
without taking the boat out of the water at all.

 

[No Regrets]

If you're suggesting there is any comparison between the running costs of shafts and outdrives, you have no hope at all.

Especially when we are talking about boats of 25+ years....

 

[Jimmyjames]

On a boat of this size don’t let the sterndrive put you off. If you have shaft and gearbox you will lose the mid cabin. Sterndrives are the only option on this size and price point. I have had and worked on numerous drives and Volvo drives are absolutely the best. Maintenance isn’t a big deal and unlike the Mercruiser drive, it won’t sink if the bellows fail. Manoeuvrability with the sterndrive is much better too as the thrust is directional and not dependant on steerage weigh as it is with a rudder. Don’t listen to the anti sterndrive brigade.

 

[Jimmyjames]

Yes I know it’s an really old thread but a more subjective view was required.

 

[LimL]

I owned a Reflection 23 from new for several years. Ideal for Thames (at Penton Hook at the time) and took her down to Guildford/ Godalming on the Wey many times too. Good boat and positive with outdrive is that you can adjust its position in shallow water or when moored.