Reefing systems - advice required

[March2]

Getting closer to my intended purchase (after several false alarms) and I would like to have a better understanding of the different options for reefing.

The boat I am looking at has slab reefing and my experience is all of this type, however as I will be single handed most of the time I am thinking about changing the set up to avoid going forward but I am not aware of of all the different options and the relative pro's and cons i.e in mast, single line etc.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Good day.

the last three boats I have owned, spanning back 15 years, have all had slab reefing. The have also, without exception, had single line reefing. This should be easy enough single handed as you do not need to leave the cockpit. I just hove to, with the main just flapping I can easily pop in a reef in no time at all.

Some will tell you that single line reefing jams etc etc. All I can say is I have never had a jam, it has always worked as it should.

 

[capnsensible]

I didn't ever think I would recommend in mast reefing, but a few miles under the keel later, I actually can!

It's very easy to use short or single handed, so simple that it encourages the correct sail plan for the conditions.

Single line reefing has also never given me a problem and is a nice solution if you prefer the traditional method.

 

[prv]

First thing I'd suggest is to try it before you change anything. I had lots of ideas for KS which I didn't do through lack of time, and am now glad I didn't. Change things based on experience rather than theory. For instance, I have no particular issue going to the mast when singlehanded - it doesn't matter much whether the tiller is being held by a mate or by the tillerpilot.

If, after trying it a couple of times, you decide that cockpit-based reefing is the right answer (and it very well may be) then I'd advise sticking with slabs. Just add a couple of blocks at the foot of the mast, and run the clew reefing pendants through them back to the cockpit (you'll probably need longer lines). Then hitch another line into each of the tack rings and run those back through the foot blocks too.

At the gooseneck, to keep the tack lines under control, you can fasten a stainless ring for each line to pass through. I believe you can buy readymade fittings for this that replace tack horns (I've heard them called "spectacle rings" since they come in pairs) but in my case I just seized a plain ring to either side of the fitting that the tack of the sail is fixed to.

Pete

 

[Tranona]

Getting closer to my intended purchase (after several false alarms) and I would like to have a better understanding of the different options for reefing.

The boat I am looking at has slab reefing and my experience is all of this type, however as I will be single handed most of the time I am thinking about changing the set up to avoid going forward but I am not aware of of all the different options and the relative pro's and cons i.e in mast, single line etc.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

You don't say what kind of boat you are looking at. In smaller sizes, say up to 32 ft for short handed sailing then single line slab reefing is fine. It can also be used successfully on larger boats, but at around that size the real advantages of in-mast come into play. Easier reefing and dowsing and the ability to infinitely adjust sail area tend to offset the loss in performance from the smaller sail area and restrictions on shape and efficiency.

With some boats you don't have a choice and it is perhaps not sensible to think of switching once you have bought the boat. Similarly, if you go for in-mast make sure it is an original design feature.

If you do a search on this subject you will find plenty of threads covering pros and cons of both. Approx 50% of new boats have in mast which suggests both camps are right - or wrong!

 

[Evadne]

I would endorse the above. Try and play what you are dealt with before throwing it out for something different. The boat you buy will have ben sailed so the system in place has most probably been used. Ask the owner, once he/she becomes the previous owner for an objective opinion.
Personally, I have 2 line slab reefing which is a simple system and not prone to snagging or catastrophic phailure, on a small boat (<35') walking to the mast shouldn't be an issue. More important in that respect are the minor details such as the use of rams horns or not. I agonised over what form of reefing would be best then took 20 years to change what I'd bought. I'd avoid that there roller jib reefing though, it'll never catch on.

 

[vyv_cox]

Getting closer to my intended purchase (after several false alarms) and I would like to have a better understanding of the different options for reefing.

The boat I am looking at has slab reefing and my experience is all of this type, however as I will be single handed most of the time I am thinking about changing the set up to avoid going forward but I am not aware of of all the different options and the relative pro's and cons i.e in mast, single line etc.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

In-mast reefing can be reliable and more convenient than slab reefing but it has disadvantages. Add-on systems also add a lot of weight and there have been cases on smaller boats (<35 ft) where the additional weight has reduced stability considerably.

Apparently the big mistake that charterers in the Med make is to reef when going downwind. This can result in loose rolling and jamming. Like this

It took about two hours of constant work to free it. In Leros they tell me that on average they are asked to fix this problem (not on the same boat!) once per week.

Single line slab reefing has been my choice for the past 20 years. I have always made my own and never had a jam. Either of us can reef on almost any point of sail. You will find a description of the system that I use on my website.

 

[webcraft]

.
If you are singlehanding then get a reliable tillerpilot or a windvane. You will then be able to reef at leisure while the boat sails herself on the headsail.

Spectacle rings make the job at the mast much easier.

Consider having conventional reefing lines led back to the cockpit. Less than a minute to slacken the main halliard, go forward and hook the specatacle ring on and get back to the cockpit, then tighten the reef in at leisure before releasing the topping lift.

In-mast reefing is very convenient, but the sail always looks like an old bedsheet, and if it jams it can be fun and games.

- W

 

[Tranona]

.


In-mast reefing is very convenient, but the sail always looks like an old bedsheet, and if it jams it can be fun and games.

- W

It does not have to if it is properly cut, and only "fun and games" if you can't be bothered to learn how to use it properly!

 

[prv]

go forward and hook the specatacle ring on

Ah - I think one of us (probably me) has the wrong term. I was talking about a pair of rings which are permanently mounted on the gooseneck instead of the horns, and act as fairleads for a tack pendant that is led down to the deck and then back to the cockpit.

Pete

 

[webcraft]

Ah - I think one of us (probably me) has the wrong term. I was talking about a pair of rings which are permanently mounted on the gooseneck instead of the horns, and act as fairleads for a tack pendant that is led down to the deck and then back to the cockpit.

Pete

Ah . . . I was meaning a pair of joined rings passed through the reefing cringle. These are hooked over the rams horn instead of having to hook the actual cringle over. Much easier and avoids any need to remove slides or otherwise struggle.

- W

 

[March2]

Thanks for the advice

Thanks to everyone - I now have a much better understanding of the options and how they work.

Based on your feedback and some subsequent internet research I will take the step by step approach i.e. start with some spectacle rings (last definition) then if need be move to single line, not sure about in-mast as this will be my first boat.

March2

 

[Marsupial]

those bits on a Z Spar rig are called bullseyes, its a piece of alloy with two holes in it rivetted to the mast just below the gooseneck. check out the z spar website.

So far out here in the Ionian over the last 3 months I have sorted out out three mainsails on private yachts that either wont go in or out of inmast systems - so the score for mainsail issues so far is : slab 0 in mast 3

 

[Norman_E]

If you have slab reefing and want to convert to a system you can operate from the cockpit, consider single line reefing with a pair of blocks travelling within the boom for the first reef, I made my own system with two blocks bolted back to back, and blocks hung from spectacle rings for both luff and leach. The sail maker fitted leather anti chafe patches to the sails.

For the deep second reef a single line system would require a very long single rope pull to operate it, and there is a risk that two sets of double blocks within the boom might get entangled. My solution was a twin line system for the second reef, which has less friction than the single line system and lets you adjust luff and leach separately. It also has blocks hung from spectacle rings and leather anti chafe patches.

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

If you have slab reefing and want to convert to a system you can operate from the cockpit, consider single line reefing with a pair of blocks travelling within the boom for the first reef, I made my own system with two blocks bolted back to back, and blocks hung from spectacle rings for both luff and leach. The sail maker fitted leather anti chafe patches to the sails.

For the deep second reef a single line system would require a very long single rope pull to operate it, and there is a risk that two sets of double blocks within the boom might get entangled. My solution was a twin line system for the second reef, which has less friction than the single line system and lets you adjust luff and leach separately. It also has blocks hung from spectacle rings and leather anti chafe patches.

I have been considering a system which would allow me to take in two reefs from the cockpit but not sure of details of such systems, ie, blocks etc.
Am also wondering if a system where one line would haul down and secure the first reef and another line would be used to do same with second reef.
Maybe Norman you or someone else could post some diagrams of the different reefing setups controlable from the cockpit, which would obviousley have some form of controllong the main halyard.
Would I need one or two winches on the coach roof?
Thanks C_W

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

In-mast reefing can be reliable and more convenient than slab reefing but it has disadvantages. Add-on systems also add a lot of weight and there have been cases on smaller boats (<35 ft) where the additional weight has reduced stability considerably.

Apparently the big mistake that charterers in the Med make is to reef when going downwind. This can result in loose rolling and jamming. Like this

It took about two hours of constant work to free it. In Leros they tell me that on average they are asked to fix this problem (not on the same boat!) once per week.

Single line slab reefing has been my choice for the past 20 years. I have always made my own and never had a jam. Either of us can reef on almost any point of sail. You will find a description of the system that I use on my website.

Been looking at the diagram of your single line system.
Would it not be possible to have the balance blocks arranged so that they slide in a track attached along the outsideside of the boom, with a set either side, one for the first and one for the second reef? this would enable this system to be used on round booms, and could even mean three reefs could be controlled, one set inside the boom and the other two outside as I have described. (you dident explain why your system cant be used on round booms)? My last round boom had the main sail outhaul inside the boom using a similar system using a double block giving an advantage for hauling.
Also you say that only a certain length of the leach can be hauled using this systen, what if the lines to each of the leach cringles terminated at (fixed to ) these cringles as opposed to passing through them and down to be fixed to the boom, would this not mean less fore/aft travel of the balanance blocks? and less line to be hauled? or am I wrong about the ratio's
C_W

 

[vyv_cox]

Been looking at the diagram of your single line system.
Would it not be possible to have the balance blocks arranged so that they slide in a track attached along the outsideside of the boom, with a set either side, one for the first and one for the second reef? this would enable this system to be used on round booms, and could even mean three reefs could be controlled, one set inside the boom and the other two outside as I have described. (you dident explain why your system cant be used on round booms)? My last round boom had the main sail outhaul inside the boom using a similar system using a double block giving an advantage for hauling.

Yes, perfectly possible, although I'm not sure the equipment exists to do it. It would entail a lot of rope outside the boom, some of which would inevitably be somewhat loose on occasions.

Also you say that only a certain length of the leach can be hauled using this systen, what if the lines to each of the leach cringles terminated at (fixed to ) these cringles as opposed to passing through them and down to be fixed to the boom, would this not mean less fore/aft travel of the balanance blocks? and less line to be hauled? or am I wrong about the ratio's
C_W

That could be done but the friction and loadings would be high. It would probably obviate the advantage of the current arrangement that the luff is pulled down first.

 

[Clyde_Wanderer]

Starting at the basics.
My mast step is an upsidedown amulinium T section, how would I attach blocks to it?
C_W

Thanks for all the great advice, Im am overwhelmed by the massive response!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Norman_E]

I have been considering a system which would allow me to take in two reefs from the cockpit but not sure of details of such systems, ie, blocks etc.
Am also wondering if a system where one line would haul down and secure the first reef and another line would be used to do same with second reef.
Maybe Norman you or someone else could post some diagrams of the different reefing setups controlable from the cockpit, which would obviousley have some form of controllong the main halyard.
Would I need one or two winches on the coach roof?
Thanks C_W

I am off to Turkey later today, to go sailing, so a quick reply only.

There are lots of diagrams on the web for single line systems, but I could not find one for a twin line system. It is however very simple and strongly recommended for your deep reef, which you need to put in when the wind is really getting up. I have two reefs, a shallow first reef and a very deep second reef, this system is on my second reef.

The luff line starts by being tied to a point at the mast foot, goes up to a block hung from a spectacle ring on the luff reefing point, down from there to a mast foot block and, via a deck organiser to a clutch on the coach-roof. That arrangement gives a 2:1 purchase and you could possibly simply start the line by attaching it to the luff cringle on a smaller boat.

The leach line starts by being attached to a fitting on the underside of the boom, passes through a slot in the lazy bag to a block hung from a spectacle ring on the reefing point. From there it goes via a boom end sheave, through the boom to a mast end sheave, down to a mast foot block and back via an organiser to a clutch.

Single handed, I use it by releasing the main halyard under control by friction round the winch, and lower it to a mark slightly below the required level. I then pull down the luff line by hand as far as I can, and do the same with the leach line. After that I re-tension the halyard. If necessary I can use a winch to put a bit of extra tension on luff and leach lines but it is not always necessary. Doubtless someone will tell me that my system is wrong, but it is simple, works well, and I used it for a whole season before I fitted the single line system to the first reef, and never actually bothered with the first reef that year.

I recommend this system very highly for a deep reef because it is simple, safe, and reliable.

 

[vyv_cox]

I am off to Turkey later today, to go sailing, so a quick reply only.

There are lots of diagrams on the web for single line systems, but I could not find one for a twin line system. It is however very simple and strongly recommended for your deep reef, which you need to put in when the wind is really getting up. I have two reefs, a shallow first reef and a very deep second reef, this system is on my second reef.

The luff line starts by being tied to a point at the mast foot, goes up to a block hung from a spectacle ring on the luff reefing point, down from there to a mast foot block and, via a deck organiser to a clutch on the coach-roof. That arrangement gives a 2:1 purchase and you could possibly simply start the line by attaching it to the luff cringle on a smaller boat.

The leach line starts by being attached to a fitting on the underside of the boom, passes through a slot in the lazy bag to a block hung from a spectacle ring on the reefing point. From there it goes via a boom end sheave, through the boom to a mast end sheave, down to a mast foot block and back via an organiser to a clutch.

Single handed, I use it by releasing the main halyard under control by friction round the winch, and lower it to a mark slightly below the required level. I then pull down the luff line by hand as far as I can, and do the same with the leach line. After that I re-tension the halyard. If necessary I can use a winch to put a bit of extra tension on luff and leach lines but it is not always necessary. Doubtless someone will tell me that my system is wrong, but it is simple, works well, and I used it for a whole season before I fitted the single line system to the first reef, and never actually bothered with the first reef that year.

I recommend this system very highly for a deep reef because it is simple, safe, and reliable.

That's a good method for pulling in the third reef where two can be accommodated within the length of the boom. Its only disadvantage is the long lengths of line involved, always flapping and chafing against the sail. A compromise might be your idea permanently rigged at the luff but the leech pennant tied off along the boom to be rigged via a snap shackle when needed. Requires that the leech can be reached fairly easily in adverse conditions but since this is a fairly rare event it might be worth considering.