Reefing lines etc.

[doctorfresh]

I am sure that I keep asking daft questions on this forum, but people are kind enough to reply and that merely encourages me.

I have recently bought a 37 foot Puma, basically a Catalan built Moody. It has long plastic slugs in the mainsail track and I have recently fitted a stack pack to ease single handed sailing.

Question 1: reefing

Recently, I was about to go out in a bit of a blow and decided to put Reef 3 in before we set off (we were only going for a spin, to test the new boat, and the wind was unlikely to change). However, because of the size of the 'slugs' in the mainsail track, there was no way that the reef cringle will get to the ram's horn on the mast. (Specifically, the length of the slugs accumulated at the bottom of the track when three reefs are in means that the third reef cringle was too high to get anywhere near the ram's horn. In addition, the narrow 'flake' at the 3rd reef points means that there is insufficient flexibility to pull it down - or out and down - to get to the ram's horn).

Question: as the (old) mainsail on the yacht (which still has some wear in it, so I am reluctant to get a new one yet) does not have 'spectacles' which might extend the reach of the reefing cringle (to the ram's horn), are there any decent solutions (I used several turns of cord to tie it down, but this is not a very elegant solution and would require someone to spend sometime at the mast; if one was putting in Reef 3 presumably in pretty awful weather). Basically,
(a) would spectacles, or something similar, be the solution to extend the 'reach' of the reefing cringle to the ram's horn?
(b) can one 'retrofit' spectacles without sending the sail to a sailmaker? If so, how?
(c) is there a solution similar to retrofitted 'spectacles'? I have thought about a length of 3 ply rope, with thimbles at each end spliced into the rope ( I could do this, at a pinch) like spectacles but rope rather than strop. Or would a strop with thimbles sewn in be a better solution?
(d) will the fact that there are spectacles/some other solution compromise the sail shape (i.e. the clew will be tight to the boom whereas the tack will be higher up, by the length of the spectacles. Will this make much difference?
Any comments - well, almost any - gratefully received.

Question 2

At some point, I'd like to be able to fit a single line reefing system or similar. In particular, I want to be able to reef/shake out reefs when single handed which means from the cockpit. My yacht is 37 feet long but has a relatively short boom (I think). How can I find, locate and investigate suitable systems? (I recently sailed a 34 foot Janneau which had a very good single line reefing system)

Most proprietary systems are limited to yachts 35 feet or less in length, which seems arbitrary as the issue is friction/tension in the reefing lines. Then one goes to double line reefing, which is obviously better but takes up twice as much coachroof space (limited in my case). Sail area and length of boom must dictate the friction/tension in the lines rather than boat length?

Any ideas re manufacturers, installers or who to approach? If it costs a few quid, so be it.

Is it better to get a new boom to do so?

Thanks for your replies (in anticipation)

Doctorfresh

 

[William_H]

Most larger boats have the slugs on the mainsail luff. As you have found they do foul up the tack when you want to reef.
Indeed on my smaller boat it is the reason I have stuck with bolt rope in the groove. Certainly not suitable or a stack pack and more difficult to raise though a guide helps a lot.
To my mind the best answer is to have a gate so that the slugs can escape when you reef. I just feel that it is very desirable to have the tack eyelet down near the boom, and of course essential if you are going to use ram's horns.
When reefing it is essential to get the foot of the sail really tight. That means that the outhaul (aft reefing line) is pulling the foot of the sail against the slug(s) in the track. They may or may not take this load. Further the pull on the sail will be off line because the tack eyelet is way higher than designed into the sail. ie the pull is not aligned to the warp or weft of the cloth. Hence I think it desirable to get the slugs out of the way and pull the tack down to the rams horn. (my concern may be unfounded of course)
A last option perhaps only for first reef would be to remove the slugs below the first reef eyelet and rely on luff tension to keep the luff up to the mast. Not practical for the long distance to the 3rd reef eyelet.

I use 2 line reefing on a tender boat with big main where reefing is frequent while underway. I use a tack line (front) which pulls both down and forward to take (or apply) this load which stretches the foot of the sail.This line is led back to the halyard winches. I do acknowledge your concern about another 3 tack reefing lines on the cabin top, but it works beautifully. No I don't like single line reefing at all. I like to be able to apply winch tension to both reefing lines separately. Main sail sets beautifully for racing.
Probably not much help but good luck anyway olewill

 

[Neil_Y]

Two options one boat I sailed had two rings (one either side of the sail) sewed onto a thick webbing strap that passed through the reefing eye at the luff. The webbing strap was long enough for the ring to reach the hook on either side. Or let the sliders out of the track, in a breeze this might create a problem.

Single line reefing and short booms can be a problem, why not look at having dual line reefing also done from cockpit, one line to the clew the other to the reefing eye on the luff, this works very well and has much less friction and chance of jamming. I've used this on a recent trip and it worked very nicely on a 36 feeling.

 

[doctorfresh]

Two options one boat I sailed had two rings (one either side of the sail) sewed onto a thick webbing strap that passed through the reefing eye at the luff. The webbing strap was long enough for the ring to reach the hook on either side. Or let the sliders out of the track, in a breeze this might create a problem.

Single line reefing and short booms can be a problem, why not look at having dual line reefing also done from cockpit, one line to the clew the other to the reefing eye on the luff, this works very well and has much less friction and chance of jamming. I've used this on a recent trip and it worked very nicely on a 36 feeling.

Thanks, both of you, for replying

The webbing strap with rings is the 'spectacles' I referred to. Any idea how to 'retrofit' these as I understand the sailmaker usually includes these with the sail. Mine doesn't have them. The rings would need to be large enough NOT to go through the reefing eyelet in the sail, so the strap would need to be sewn 'in situ'. Unless I am missing something?

 

[Daydream believer]

First refit the sail slug below the reef point a bit lower down the sail. This allows the sail to come further down
Avoid removing slugs from the track as it is a pain re locating them when shaking out reef
Then increase length of line to spectacles.
Work out the length you need & in the comfort of home splice a ring onto a three strand rope.
On the other end splice a loop
When back on the boat fit the line through the reef eye on the sail & on the loop side fit a large shackle instead of a ring
This means you can remove & remake if not quite right
Obviously shackle & ring have to be large enough to not pull throug the sail eye & the shackle is best fitted with the rounded part against the sail ring rather than the pin part
Definately go for single line reefing on first & second reefs & do not mess about with blocks & sliders in the boom . That is a no no for problems & is not needed
On the third reef place a strop on the boom & tension sail by transferring the clew outhaul to it. At the mast use spectacles
This then gives a reserve systen if secong & first reefs fail for some reason
Single line properly set up give excellent quick reefing & sail set & best of all is much safer than going to the mast
Single line reefing is used on much larger Hanse boats than yours so no problem with mainsail size

 

[oldbilbo]

Thanks, both of you, for replying

The webbing strap with rings is the 'spectacles' I referred to. Any idea how to 'retrofit' these as I understand the sailmaker usually includes these with the sail. Mine doesn't have them. The rings would need to be large enough NOT to go through the reefing eyelet in the sail, so the strap would need to be sewn 'in situ'. Unless I am missing something?

No, you understand it well enough. You need to acquire a pair of stainless rings ( for each tack eye needing 'em ) which will not fit through the tack eye on the sail, a length of polyester webbing about 12-20mm wide, some waxed polyester thread and a couple of sailmakers' needles. A sailmaker's sewing palm also assists. as does a sharp knife.

Sew one end of the tape securely around one ring. With the mainsail in the deep-reefed configuration, pass the webbing through your 3rd reef tack eye and through the second stainless ring. Hook this lower ring onto your reefing ramshorn, then pass the webbing back up through the 3rd reef tack eye and through the first stainless ring to complete one loop. Pass the webbing again and again to make 3 complete loops around each stainless ring ( passing through the tack eye each time, of course ) and pull just taut.....positioning the reef-tack eye where needed, but with just sufficient slack for you to be able to hook the lower ring onto the rams horn.

Now cut off the un-needed webbing tape, and sew the free end to the other three layers next to each ring..... or simply tie the end of the tape around the three layers, and secure with a couple of stitches.

The 'extended' spectacles allows you to secure the 3rd reef tack-eye as low as you can get it. When you wish to rig reefing lines back to the cockpit, secure a small single block to the lower stainless ring, and reeve your line through this. You may need to fix a turning block on the mast wall to ensure a proper 'pull' forward and down.

It's easy to make adjustments to the length of the spectacles by cutting the stitches, adjusting the length of the webbing loops, and re-tying/re-sewing.

There are many variations - you might prefer to use stainless snaplinks instead of rings. Provided they don't pass through the reef eye, it should not matter, and that permits the webbing loops ( mini-strops ) to be sewn elsewhere.

 

[doctorfresh]

Thanks OB - that was exactly what I wanted. Now ordered the requisite equipment and will have to see if my sewing skills are up to the job!

 

[Stemar]

I have a 24ft boat, so loads and the like will be significantly higher, but I found DIY single line reefing for 2 reefs very straightforward and costs at the proof of concept stage were minimal, so may be worth a try, starting with single line reefing at the mast to see how it works before spending money and making holes for deck organisers, clutches and so on.

For each reef, a line from the boom reefing attachment goes up through the leach cringle and down to a block rivetted to the boom. From there, forward to a block at the forward end of the boom, up to a block attached to the luff cringle (replace one end of your spectacle with a block), then down to the foot of the mast and aft to the cockpit clutches. Repeat for the other reef(s). I suspect that with a bit of ingenuity, you could get all three reefs set up. If not, I'd consider setting up reef one with spectacles at the luff and a strap round the boom at the leach, 'cos you're putting that one in before things get really nasty, and do reefs 2 & 3 properly.

Most in mast reefing systems I've seen only have two reefs connected, apparantly, you're supposed to unreeve reef one and use the string to reeve reef three. Just what you want to be doing when you find you're overpowered with two reefs in already!

Using a simple system like mine, the short boom's actually an advantage 'cos it's less string underfoot in the cockpit.

 

[Neil_Y]

Stitching is easier if you use a proper saddle stitch, put a sewing needled on each end of the thread pass one needle through to start and have the same amount of spare thread on each side. Pass needles through same hole towards each other and it will end up looking like this diagram...ignore the fact that one thread on drawing is broken.

 

[Yacht Yogi]

If you use an extended strap or rope to reach the ramshorns then you will probably need to add a strop looped around the mast because when you tighten the reefing line at the clew, it pulls the sail back like an outhaul. This could break the slugs or tear the rings out of the sail. The extended strop, acting just downwards will not hold the tack of the sail forwards against the mast.