Reducing friction - halyards

[LORDNELSON]

Most halyards on my boat come back to the cockpit. They are managed by winches and clutches. The ropes are aligned by deck organisers, blocks at the mast step etc., There seems quite a lot of friction in the system and I wondered if it could be reduced by use of different rope (present ropes seem to be fairly ordinary braid on braid), possible by reducing the diameter of the halyards. Any suggestions welcome. Thanks

 

[AIDY]

by changing to a dynema braid you will be able to reduce the dia by a few mm, and keep the breaking load.

we used to have a problem getting the kite down, there was too much friction in the system and by changing to a smaller dia it solved alot of things.

 

[Poignard]

Reduce the number of blocks.
Fit larger diameter blocks.
Fit ball bearing blocks.
Avoid sharp changes of direction around blocks.
Check the blocks are in good condition,

 

[Cloven]

I have a similar system on present and previous boat. On the last boat this became a problem as there was no doubt that the ropes do get thicker with age and use. I replaced some of the running rigging and this helped greatly. It may be that you need to replace the running rigging and certainly going to a smaller diameter will help as long as you don't compromise strength.

I assume you have checked that the sheaves in the blocks/deck organisers are OK but also it is worth checking that the halyard sheaves in the mast are running freely as well.

Hope this helps

 

[dt4134]

I've a similar problem. I've made some progress in reducing friction using MacLube.

The next thing I'm going to try is to reduce the diameter of the lines (one at a time as an experiment) to see how much I can reduce the friction.

I'm hopeful. It's common practice on racers to go for thinner running rigging to reduce friction (and weight and drag) but then again the're much more expensive

 

[ditchcrawler]

I had a 12mm main halyard which because of the eye splice made it very difficult to hoist the last foot of the main(as the end is thicker than 12mm).I changed it for a 10mm which works fine.Some braid on braid ropes are stronger than others & I managed to source some that had a greater breaking strength.I looked into Dyneema etc but the cost was too big a factor for me(but maybe not you)

 

[lw395]

Sometimes the rope stiffens with age.
Sometimes the alignment of deck organisers causes lines to rub on the sides.
It may help to raise the deck organiser on a block of wood so that the halyards do not touch the deck.
Are the halyards rubbing each other in the mast?
Time spent finding the source of friction will be repaid!
Just washing the halyards to remove salt and dirt can restore their flexibility somewhat. While you're doing that, temporarily install a thinner line and see what the improvement is.
Breaking strain is probably not the issue, more likely stretch and grip in the clutches.

 

[LORDNELSON]

Many thanks to all, will try the various ideas and see what happens. Not much friction inside the mast, however, have tried hauling on halyards where they come out at the foot of the mast and they haul very easily.

 

[mixmaster]

Are you sure the friction is with the rope and not the sail slides/cars going up the mast. I have a similar problem on our boat. Have replaced halyard sheaves, deck organiser and block at base of mast. dyneema halyard as well. I'm now convinced the problem is the friction of the sail going up the mast. Expensive to change so get someone to sweat or crank like crazy.

 

[mikejames]

One thing is if you replace e.g. 10mm polyester rope with 8mm dyneema/spectra is that while the new halyard will stretch much less , it is more likely to creep through your 8-12mm rope clutches under high load - the rope construction of braid-on-braid is less crushable and the polyester core bundles are less slippery than the cores of spectra/dyneema. The effect is that when the wind blows hard and the No2 genoa is sheeted in hard, the genoa begins to creep downwards.

Other friction issues can be that the halyards get bent or dragged against the sides of the slots where they leave the mast , and carefully aligning turning blocks with the slots in the mast when it is all under load makes a difference- on my 10mm main halyard having a block with a becket with a carefully pre-tensioned line on it made a major difference to the friction.

 

[giraffe]

I reduced friction by reducing the mm for sheets halyards and reefing lines which were too fat for the blocks. jimmy green has a useful guide for what mm lines for different boat lengths eg he suggest you'd need a 12m boat before you need 12mm main sheet and halyard.

http://www.jimmygreen.co.uk/technical_info/sheets_and_halyards_size_and_length_guide.htm

 

[ShipsWoofy]

Best money I spent this year was on 2 ball bearing blocks for the roller reefing line to the headsail. Previous to fitting it was cut fingers as the line became so tight trying to roll the sail away.

Now it just pops back in, I even surprised myself quite how much difference it made. A few years back I changed the blocks at the masthead, again friction type to bearings. This actually means amazingly, the difference between a tight and slack genoa luff, even though it is in a foil on the reefer.

To summarise, change the blocks, but prepare for a price shock, this is why I am doing mine a bit at a time.

The difference good running gear makes is phenomenal, but unlike many boats costs, I do feel better and recover from the shock every time I use them..

 

[Babylon]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you sure the friction is with the rope and not the sail slides/cars going up the mast.

[/ QUOTE ]

I had similar problems, but very largely solved it by spraying lubricant (Harken stuff, the can is on the boat and I can't remember exactly what its ingredients are) inside the mast track as far as I could reach from deck level, and all over the sail slides with the main down. Also lubricated the blocks on deck and those accessible at the foot of the mast.

Also, when you layup, remove the halyards (mouse the runs first using 4mm line), bag them in an old pillowcase and wash the salt out in the washing-machine with a dose of fabric softener added to make them more pliable. You might as well do the same with the rest of your running rigging while you're at it.