Red & White Diesel. Are they the same?

[temptress]

I've just had my heating serviced and the engineer is trying to tell me that "it's not designed to run on red diesel".

When i suggest Lorries and buses use Deisel for these units fine I told that "...Red diesel is a different specification to white"

Now I always thought that Red was simply White with dye added.

Is that correct?

 

[rickp]

In most cases, red diesel has a higher sulpher content - however some places (one of the Thames marinas, I think) are selling dyed white, with a lower sulpher content.

Presumably this is an Eberspacher? I've heard the "doesn't run on red" quip quite a few times - but my eberspacher ran fine on red diesel for 2 years, used extensively without any issues and it was 3 years old at the time.

Rick

 

[sarabande]

red and white are in principle the same, with a dye and other tracker elements being used to enable the Revenue to check the status of samples.

Oil companies can vary the composition of both types, so that - for example - diesel which is used in very cold conditions has an anti-gelling substance added. You also have low-sulphur diesel, and various other additive to reduce engine exhaust pollutants.

In general, IMHO, white diesel is "finer" than red, so the heater should have no problem using both. Check the heater for the spec required, to be sure.

You'll need to look at kinematic viscosity and cetane number f'rinstance.

 

[temptress]

Ys it an Eberspacher. But I don't want to talk about heaters here.

I'm interested in understnding is RED the same as WHITE? Or are they different. I've been told several times that they are the same and yet I've also been told they are different. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[rickp]

My understanding is that they may be the same, but are usually different. ie the red you buy at a marina is not likely to be the same as ULSD that you buy on the forecourt with some red dye added.

Some tests in one of the magazines a while back had the same conclusion I think - but I can't find it on the inefficient heap-system that is my office...

Rick

 

[rubberduck]

Just to help clarify the situation, sometimes they are the same & sometimes they are not. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[savageseadog]

My information is that red diesel can be the same but it can also be a blended consisting of a mixture of lower and higher fractions.

 

[temptress]

Well it seens they are not and therfore ebber are IMO offering product that is not fit for purpose.

From ebber

"Our heater products are designed to run on fuel to specification BS EN 590 as stated in the Technical book that accompanies all heaters."

It is commonly thought that red diesel is road diesel with a red dye in it….. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. There are two types of red diesel available, one is Gas Oil with red dye, and the other is Low Sulphur Gas Oil (City Gas Oil) with a red dye. The latter meets BS EN 590 and has the same specification as road diesel.

We have contacted a couple of Fuel Suppliers to ascertain "what exactly is it in the fuel that makes it different”.

The main differences between "Gas Oil (non BS EN 590)" and Low Sulphur Gas Oil (to BS EN 590), is the former has a lower 'Cetane rating' 46 against 52, higher sulphur %Wt 0.2 against 0.005, higher Flash point 82 against 67 and Carbon residue, on 10% distillation residue, %Wt .12 against <0.001.

The fuel commonly found on the canal system is unfortunately "Gas Oil". The other "Red diesel" available is called "City Gas Oil" (ultra low sulphur gas oil) (Linton Fuel Oil Ltd Stock code 103). This meets BS EN 590 and apparently costs the marina only 1.5 pence more per litre. Our contact was quoted saying "why anyone chooses to buy normal gas oil, I don’t know!" another supplier was challenged to why it was not always offered he said "surprisingly no one asks for it but it is readily available."

We have found boat owners using the better quality fuel to have a longer period between servicing, therefore what is needed are people like you demanding this far superior fuel. I am sure you would be happy to pay a few pence more for better fuel.

In answer to your servicing questions our heaters have a service interval of approximately 2000 hrs, this can be adversely affected by the use of Gas Oil (non BS EN 590), bacterial or water contamination. We have many customers who have taken onboard the advice we have given in the past regarding additives and now have far longer service intervals. These additives are ‘Fuel Set’ & ‘Fultron’ and are available from all good chandlers and stockists. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[BOATKID]

"not fit for purpose" - is this a compensation claim looming ???

personally I think life's to short

 

[temptress]

NO - I'd rather be sailing BUT I have no heater. I'm going to re-invent it as a webasto.............

 

[oldgit]

"inefficient heap-system that is my office..." /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[ms1]

road diesel is now Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel (ULSD) and some marinas sell ULSD with the red dye and chemical marker as RED DIESEL (eg Penton Hook marina, Thames) produced under specification EN590.
Some marinas however still sell the 'old' red diesel specification which has a higher sulphur content and is the result of a production cycle to a different standard (BS2869) . It has a lower cetane value (ignition quality) than road diesel/ULSD.