Red in Eire.

[oldgit]

Dear members,
I am grateful to XXXXXXXX , who moors his Broom at Carrick-on-Shannon, Ireland, for sending me a copy of the notice he has received as a member of the Inland Waterways Association of Ireland. This alerts anyone boating in the Republic of Ireland to the fact that the use of red diesel for the propulsion of leisure craft will become unlawful there from 1st January 2020. As a result, most marina fuel pumps in Ireland will only deliver fully-taxed white diesel and/or petroleum.
Those that moor in the Republic will obviously know about the proposed change, but visiting boaters will also need to be aware! As the 2018 EU legislation has been accepted by the UK, this is probably a sign of things to come, so I have copied the content of this notice for your information.
Best wishes, John Oldham, Hon. Secretary

Marine Notice No. 52 of 2019​

Notice to all Masters, Owners and Users of Pleasure and Recreational Craft.​

Prohibition on the use of marked gas oil in private pleasure craft​

The [Ireland] Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport wishes to inform the public of the Department of Finance’s intention to change the law regarding the use of Marked Gas Oil for Private Pleasure Navigation from 1st January 2020.
The requirement to amend the relevant legislation arises from a ruling made by the Court of Justice of the European Union in October 2018.
Section 40 of the Finance Bill 2019 proposes an amendment to Chapter 1 of Part 2 of the Finance Act 1999 in order to implement the Court decision and ensure compatibility with the Energy Tax Directive (Directive 2003/96/EC) and the Fiscal Marking Directive (Directive 95/60/EC) on a legislative basis. The proposed amendment will take effect from 1 January 2020. From that date, the use of marked gas fuel as a propellant by private pleasure craft will be prohibited.
EU Directive 2003/96 defines “private pleasure craft” as “any craft used by its owner or the natural or legal person who enjoys its use either through hire or through any other means, for other than commercial purposes and in particular other than for the carriage of passengers or goods or for the supply of services for consideration or for the purposes of public authorities”.
General information on mineral oil tax on heavy oil (diesel) used for private pleasure navigation can be obtained directly from the Office of the Revenue Commissioners and it is understood that they will prepare guidance material for the Revenue website and update the relevant Tax and Duty Manuals in advance of commencement of the new arrangements on 1 January 2020.
Irish Maritime Administration,
Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport,
Leeson Lane, Dublin 2, D02 TR60, Ireland.
14/11/2019

 

[Momac]

How does that work in practice ?
If a marina has marked fuel in its tanks on 1st January I guess they can only legally sell it at the domestic rate of duty .
What about the marked fuel already on the boat - after 1st January it will be illegal to use that for propulsion. What are the consequences ?

 

[BruceK]

I rather like the look of my clear glass Racors. The orange red dye in the diesel is rather fetching and compliments the colour scheme of my engine bay. Green Volvo and white bilge. If I was a patriotic Irishman I'd be adding my own dye to my white diesel. You're allowed to add your own dye right?

 

[tillergirl]

How does that work in practice ?
If a marina has marked fuel in its tanks on 1st January I guess they can only legally sell it at the domestic rate of duty .
What about the marked fuel already on the boat - after 1st January it will be illegal to use that for propulsion. What are the consequences ?

Seems clear - "From that date, the use of marked gas fuel as a propellant by private pleasure craft will be prohibited". Marked fuel in Ireland based boats after 1st January will be illegal irrespective of being purchase 'lawfully' in Eire prior to 1st January. I guess Ireland has similar laws to the UK i.e if someone used red diesel in a road car in the UK. Fortunately while the UK Govt is trying to leave they won't both to adhere to the EU Court of Justice decision....... one hopes.

 

[BruceK]

I have nearly a ton of red in my tanks and the boat wont be in the water till March. In the meantime there is no way I could get a bowser in between the boats on the hard and the harbour master and local marinas would have a fit of many multi hued conniptions should a closing figure of a 1000 local boats each try and dump their red in the 750 litre recycle waste oil tank. So much and good luck to the Irish.

 

[James L]

I have nearly a ton of red in my tanks and the boat wont be in the water till March. In the meantime there is no way I could get a bowser in between the boats on the hard and the harbour master and local marinas would have a fit of many multi hued conniptions should a closing figure of a 1000 local boats each try and dump their red in the 750 litre recycle waste oil tank. So much and good luck to the Irish.

Hopefully they'll take the approach of just preventing the marinas from selling it and turn a blind eye to any existing fuel.
Would be very difficult to enforce anyway, as you'd have to be stopping boats which were underway as there is no law against having it in your tanks and not using it for propulsion.

And btw - it's not much different to the existing much ignored law that said you need to contact revenue and declare the purchase of red diesel and pay the relevant duty.
If I recall correctly the fact that only 3 declarations were made in the past few years blunted their argument that they were already collecting the duty on diesel used for leisure purposes.

 

[oldgit]

Seems pretty obvious, unless you are desperately trying to make things complicated.
As from 01/01/2020.
The supplier must collect the full rate of duty on any fuel (white/red/yellow/green/ blue ) or any other colour of the rainbow you fancy, if supplied to any mode of transport for leisure use. ie. motor vehicle/ boat / aeroplane etc ( yes there are diesel aero engines.)
There will be grace period where no action will be taken, unless obvious fraud is being carried out.
About 5 years should do nicely.
If you are worried about it being problem after that length of time, you really need to use your boat more. ?
As for UK not going down that road, do keep up, its all done and dusted whatever happens at the election,Red is going.

 

[BruceK]

As for UK not going down that road, do keep up, its all done and dusted whatever happens at the election,Red is going.

I have the perfect plan to stitch Seastoke up. :encouragement:

 

[James L]

Seems pretty obvious, unless you are desperately trying to make things complicated.
As from 01/01/2020.
The supplier must collect the full rate of duty on any fuel (white/red/yellow/green/ blue ) or any other colour of the rainbow you fancy, if supplied to any mode of transport for leisure use. ie. motor vehicle/ boat / aeroplane etc ( yes there are diesel aero engines.)
There will be grace period where no action will be taken, unless obvious fraud is being carried out.
About 5 years should do nicely.
If you are worried about it being problem after that length of time, you really need to use your boat more. ?
As for UK not going down that road, do keep up, its all done and dusted whatever happens at the election,Red is going.

In Ireland you can currently purchase marked diesel at most rural garages, they have no way to check how you're actually going to use it.
Similarly any home can get marked diesel for heating (normally kerosene but the boilers can be configured for either).

The only way to really enforce it is random spot checks, but they could probably get > 90% compliance by ensuring marinas etc only provide unmarked diesel.

 

[Momac]

There will be grace period where no action will be taken, unless obvious fraud is being carried out.
About 5 years should do nicely.
.

I must have missed the bit about 5 years grace.

 

[maby]

...
Would be very difficult to enforce anyway, as you'd have to be stopping boats which were underway as there is no law against having it in your tanks and not using it for propulsion.

...
.

Not true - it is illegal to have marked fuel in a tank that can be connected to the engine.

 

[Momac]

Not true - it is illegal to have marked fuel in a tank that can be connected to the engine.

Will the diesel police be checking ?

 

[Dino]

Marked Gas Oil in Ireland is actually green in colour, not red. I think the issue is that the Government have not given a changeover/grace period of two years like they were supposed to. The other big issue will be getting marinas and waterside fuel sellers to change to White road diesel. Inland will be okay because there is little or no commercial traffic but at sea there will be big issues where the fuel sellers will make more money from selling Green to the fishing fleet, etc.
A lot of marinas at sea are going to offer white road diesel in cans but that won’t work for your typical twin engines 40 footer looking for 500-1000 litres.

 

[Lulla-Belle]

Not true - it is illegal to have marked fuel in a tank that can be connected to the engine.

Why cant you use Red for you generator that has engine.

Separate tank for your heating??

 

[maby]

Why cant you use Red for you generator that has engine.

Separate tank for your heating??

You can use red to drive a dedicated generator, you are not allowed to have it in a tank that can be routed to the propulsion engine

 

[Momac]

......., you are not allowed to have it in a tank that can be routed to the propulsion engine

Will anyone give a toss if I use marked fuel in my boat ?

 

[maby]

Will anyone give a toss if I use marked fuel in my boat ?

Well, enforcement is a different matter - I thought we were discussing legality. The authorities in Belgium have demonstrably taken enforcement seriously, it remains to be seen how HMRC will view it if and when this country changes the rules. Since most of us will be carrying significant amounts of marked fuel in our tanks, I would assume that they will give us the benefit of the doubt for the next 12 months or more.

 

[oldgit]

Suspect that depends if you intend using the boat outside the UK, ( and possibly Scotland) or if the HMRC decide that they need to make an example of somebody ?
Suspect word will travel very fast indeed the first time the white van and the men with black shiney shoes appear in any UK marina/boatyard car park.

 

[Momac]

Has anyone heard of a date when UK marina fuel changing to white?

 

[maby]

Has anyone heard of a date when UK marina fuel changing to white?

I don't think there has been any official announcement yet - I guess it depends a lot on the outcome of this election and the fate of Brexit. If the election produces a result that leads to Brexit being cancelled, then we must assume that Brussels is going to press for HMRC to act upon the court ruling pretty quickly and we can expect that sales of marked fuel will end within the next few months - much the same as Ireland. If the Conservatives get back with a decent majority and it is clear that Brexit will be completed in some shape and form within the next 12 months, then I guess that any decision on the fate of marked fuel will be pushed back. Governments on both sides of the Channel will have far more important things to worry about and the eventual requirement will depend on the type of Brexit we end up with. If it's a hard Brexit, then there will be no pressure for the government to change the current rules. If it is a soft Brexit, then we will be under pressure to harmonise taxation as much as possible and the recent ruling may still stand.