RED ENSIGN-FLAG OF CONVENIENCE

SURWAYA

New member
Joined
2 Nov 2002
Messages
10
Location
WINTER UK/ SUMMER MED
Visit site
ARE THE BRITISH MARITME AUTHORITIES AWARE THAT THE RED ENSIGN IS MERELY A FLAG OF CONVENIENCE FOR MANY LEISURE VESSELS IN THE MED. MY WIFE AND I ARE CURRENTLY CRUISING THE IONIAN. THROUGHOUT THE SUMMER WE'VE BEEN AMAZED BY THE NUMBER OF SAILING AND MOTOR YACHTS FLYING THE RED ENSIGN WITHOUT ENGLISH SPEAKING CREWS. WHEN WE'VE QUESTIONED THE PRACTICE MOST CREWS HAVE DUCKED OUR PRYING. SOME, HOWEVER, HAVE BEEN MORE BOLD AND BEEN HAPPY TO STATE THAT THEY FLY THE RED ENSIGN TO AVOID THE HASSLES ASSOCIATED WITH THEIR OWN FLAG. THE GREEKS FROM ATHENS IN OUR EXPERIENCE ARE PARTICULARLY GUILTY. IT'S NO WONDER THAT THERE HAS BEEN A MARKED INCREASE IN THE NUMBER OF BONA FIDE BRITISH YACHTS FLYING VERY LARGE NATIONAL FLAGS, ST GEORGE CROSSES ETC IN PROMINENT POSITIONS. THE RED ENSIGN SEEMINGLY HAS NO MORE CREDENCE THAN OTHER FLAGS OF CONVENIENCE - MONROVIA ETC. DOES ANYBODY CARE?

<hr width=100% size=1>
 

Sybarite

Well-known member
Joined
7 Dec 2002
Messages
27,704
Location
France
Visit site
Nice idea but I think you need to look at the fiscal implications of UK/Channel Island/Isle of Man offshore companies which own these boats.

John

<hr width=100% size=1>
 

AndrewB

Well-known member
Joined
7 Jun 2001
Messages
5,861
Location
Dover/Corfu
Visit site
Of course 'the authorities' are aware. The Red Duster has been a yachting flag of convenience around the world for at least 30 years, as a tax dodge in countries that impose substantial annual taxes on registered yachts (and at one time a good means of money-laundering). British registration though a nominal British company is, if not big business, a useful source of income in several UK territories.

So mostly we don't care. One consequence is the difficulty of telling a genuine 'British' yacht. In the Caribbean, which is over-run by US boats with huge, pristine ensigns, blue as well as red; Brits tend to fly small tatty ones as a badge of self-recognition.
 

Aja

Well-known member
Joined
6 Nov 2001
Messages
4,790
Visit site
Hve you not sighted any St Andrew's flags yet?

/forums/images/icons/wink.gif

Donald

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
G

Guest

Guest
But this has been the case for years .......

The Duster has been available as FOC via various dun=bious brokers on the UK mainland to such as : Spanish Fisherman, Luxury Yachts all over the globe, Merchant Ships, etc. etc.

I sailed on FOC for the latter part of my Sea career and to be honest found the Liberian / NIS / DIS / Malta / Cyprus / Panama ships that I was on much better than the rust bucket Brit jobs that I spent my cadetship and earlier years on - with REPUTABLE BRIT companies.

OK so there are bad FOC ships - there are some bloody awful BRIT jobs as well ..... my Company inspects and surveys all sorts of marine craft from yachts right up to super-tankers ...... forget the old stigma's and borders - they don't exist anymoe ...... succesive legislation and restrictive crewing practices etc. put paid to the UK / European fleets ..... and the more surprising thing is everyone watched the USA do it and blow me down we went and followed behind 'em !!!! Also note that Liberian flag was principally there for US companies to off-shore their ships away from US Unions and rules ......

Sorry but I feel strongly about FOC - having heard all the crud and argument about them - it just needs balancing and a broader view taken ..........


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif
 

SURWAYA

New member
Joined
2 Nov 2002
Messages
10
Location
WINTER UK/ SUMMER MED
Visit site
Yes St Andrew's crosses, Saltyre's, or whatever you like to call them - we've seen those as well. I'm sorry you didn't appreciate that, 'St Georges Crosss ETC' indicated that I meant other national flags in addtion to the English flag. Perhaps you could find the time in your busy life to make a meaningful contribution to the debate. By the way, are you |Scottish?

<hr width=100% size=1>
 

SURWAYA

New member
Joined
2 Nov 2002
Messages
10
Location
WINTER UK/ SUMMER MED
Visit site
Oh you are a wit Alanpound. Sitting, as I was, in an internet cafe in Preveza, Greece, with a keyboard locked on CAPS I thought I had done rather well to put byte to screen at all. I do hope you find a life.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 

ccscott49

Active member
Joined
7 Sep 2001
Messages
18,583
Visit site
Hey! We dont need any of your crap! Get a life indeed, maybe you should try some of your own advice. What does it matter as long as the ship/yacht/boat is entitled to wear a red ensign, what language the crew speaks? Racist!

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
G

Guest

Guest
What an unfortunate thread

SURWAYA ........ the original post by you was reasonable - even though you typed it in 'SHOUT' mode.

But I'm sorry to say that I and others may consider then turning on postees as not good tactics. If you want a healthy debate - then allow others to say what they want without 'spitting' at them.

I do not believe anyone has attacked you prior to your attack on others.


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
Bilge Keelers get up further ! I came - cos they said was FREE Guinness !
/forums/images/icons/cool.gif
 

mdrifter

New member
Joined
3 Dec 2001
Messages
214
Visit site
Re: Scottish Ensign

There is a rather nice Scottish Maritime Ensign - pre-dates the red duster and flown by the Scottish Fleet prior to Union of the Crowns - more and more Scottish yachts are flying it instead of the red ensign and occasionally with it in superior/inferior position. Does it really matter other than to generate interest amongst other boats as to one's origin? Why not a Welsh Ensign as well as Cornish, Scillies, Brittany and so on...After all there appear to be many variations of blue ensigns...

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Top