Red Diesel

Greg2 said:
Not good news....

https://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/news/Pages/court-rules-against-HMRC-over-red-diesel.aspx
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Surely this is all going to become irrelevant quite shortly?
It seems a very obscure case for the ECJ to still be considering.

Stalling tactics should be the order of day:
“We will plan to implement that immediately. Here it is, our plan shows us rolling out separate infrastructure starting in 2030, to be fully operational by latest in 2040”. By which time the plan goes in the bin.

Let’s not rush to shoot ourselves in the foot too quickly - it’s taken years for it to get to this stage.

.
 
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I guess the transition period may be the fly in the ointment, particularly if it gets extended to two years and once we are paying road duty prices I suspect there will be no going back.
 
The government has also made one or two promises regards the end of austerity and needs a simple easy source of raising few quid without further antagonizing the JAMS or The Daily Wail.
Helpful suggestions,anybody.
Paying road fuel prices does NOT appeared to have noticably affected boating in the Med.
 
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oldgit said:
The government has also made one or two promises regards the end of austerity and needs a simple easy source of raising few quid without further antagonizing the JAMS or The Daily Wail.
Helpful suggestions,anybody.
Paying road fuel prices does appeared to have noticably affected boating in the Med.
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Incredibly hard to implement. The issue is almost all boats tanks in the UK are now stained so how could they ever prove things. I also think the actual amount of revenue would be very small indeed
 
Bigplumbs said:
Incredibly hard to implement. The issue is almost all boats tanks in the UK are now stained so how could they ever prove things. I also think the actual amount of revenue would be very small indeed
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Really? After one or two tank fulls of non red, when I drain off a little diesel to check it's OK it's the same colour as the stuff that's pumped into it.
 
petem said:
Really? After one or two tank fulls of non red, when I drain off a little diesel to check it's OK it's the same colour as the stuff that's pumped into it.
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We did the sums a couple of years ago when another Red Diesel thread was running. If you have been running on red for a while, then you would need to run the tank close to empty and completely refill with white three or four times in order to get the concentration of marker down to a level where you could mount a legal defence. Plastic fuel fittings including tanks and pipes may still be stained, but that should not constitute grounds for finding you guilty of a crime - you can justifiably claim that you purchased marked fuel legally in the past.
 
maby said:
We did the sums a couple of years ago when another Red Diesel thread was running. If you have been running on red for a while, then you would need to run the tank close to empty and completely refill with white three or four times in order to get the concentration of marker down to a level where you could mount a legal defence. Plastic fuel fittings including tanks and pipes may still be stained, but that should not constitute grounds for finding you guilty of a crime - you can justifiably claim that you purchased marked fuel legally in the past.
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Technically there may be some staining and traces of red present for a wile but as I said, the fuel in my tank would already pass a casual sight test. Therefore surely you're unlikely to get into a position where you need to make a legal defence.
 
oldgit said:
Paying road fuel prices does appeared to have noticably affected boating in the Med.
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I paid the equivalent of £1.20 in the Med last week. What's the price of 60/40 in the UK - 85p? Considering the overall annual cost of running my boat (c. £12k per annum) the difference between 85p and £1.20 really isn't affecting the way that I use my boat (and I'm far from rich).
 
We live on board and currently 100% of our consumption is for heating and generator aside from an occasional trip to dump holding tanks or pumpout if one is handy, different in season.Think too about all the canal boats. Personally though it would rankle somewhat, any country being snotty can well do without my custom.
 
petem said:
Technically there may be some staining and traces of red present for a wile but as I said, the fuel in my tank would already pass a casual sight test. Therefore surely you're unlikely to get into a position where you need to make a legal defence.
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True in Britain, at least, but those Belgies have gone through periods when they were only too keen to prosecute us. Following this ruling and a messy Brexit, they may start again. And don't go thinking that Brexit automatically solves the problem for us - at least for any British boats crossing the Channel. There have already been a few cases of EU countries fining non-EU boats for having red diesel in their tanks, so there is no certainty that they will accept British marked fuel in British boats following Brexit.
 
petem said:
I paid the equivalent of £1.20 in the Med last week. What's the price of 60/40 in the UK - 85p? Considering the overall annual cost of running my boat (c. £12k per annum) the difference between 85p and £1.20 really isn't affecting the way that I use my boat (and I'm far from rich).
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60/40 was around £1 when I last bought a month or so back. On the road at the moment it ranges from about 1.35 at supermarkets to £1.55 at motorway services. Based on experience with petrol, it is safe to presume we will pay a premium for waterside white desel, so I expect more like the motorway price. That is effectively a 50% increase. Maybe not much in the scheme of things, but it will curb people's habits. Ironically, the biggest losers will be our near continental friends as cross channel trips will become less viable. When fuel was fully rebated, I used to hop across for lunch. Now I only go across as part of a longer cruise. At £1.50, I may not go across at all.
 
petem said:
I paid the equivalent of £1.20 in the Med last week. What's the price of 60/40 in the UK - 85p? Considering the overall annual cost of running my boat (c. £12k per annum) the difference between 85p and £1.20 really isn't affecting the way that I use my boat (and I'm far from rich).
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I think you are falling into the trap of thinking you are less than rich, based on the boating community. While you may be a relative pauper in the med, anyone who can spend the equivalent of a full time minimum wage on keeping a boat will be viewed as very well off by the majority of joe public. There are many boaters, like myself, running a boat on a budget whose fuel bill is actually the largest part of annual running expenses. These people may be the next generation of big spenders, or, like myself, may be introducing the next generation to boating. Don't underestimate the value to the British boating industry of people doing it on a budget. Away from the Solent, they probably represent the larger proportion of British motor boaters.
 
This is going to sting a little bit. We use the boat a lot and have felt the increasing pinch of fuel cost rises at the local marinas. At 1.50 a litre I will have no option but to near half my journey's from when I started in this hobby 5 odd years ago.
I'm just a salaried schlebb.
 
BruceK said:
This is going to sting a little bit. We use the boat a lot and have felt the increasing pinch of fuel cost rises at the local marinas. At 1.50 a litre I will have no option but to near half my journey's from when I started in this hobby 5 odd years ago.
I'm just a salaried schlebb.
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You could, of course, buy a sailing boat! :-) We can cross the Atlantic on a few gallons of diesel......
 
Just shows you how long matters take to 'resolve' in the EU. One of the reasons (long forgotten) we want 'out' - but is never discussed. The wording of the reasons is also potty - MGO is not used only by fishing vessels....
 
BruceK said:
I'm just a salaried schlebb.
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Me too. For the avoidance of doubt, I only pay a third of the running cost of my boat and to be honest Med boating (from my limited experience) consists of mainly short runs to a bay or nearby marina or the occasional trip further afield.

I can see how a price increase would hurt you more than me Bruce.
 
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