Red diesel - YM scaremongering?

We were planning Oostende this summer on the way to Flushing; don't really fancy Flushing in one go so I hope this gets sorted.
 
Good old Dick, what would YM do without him! Noticed quite a few inadequately researched articles by him .. including the Dutch uplift from Navin with the addenda of a historical footnote on nazi sympathising Dutch burghers that YM subsequently issued an apology for!
 
I really can't see them doing anything to a lawful tourist in town to spend a little holiday money. If you went over there in a dodgy vessel, doing dodgy things and then getting arsey with the authorities about it when they call, then watch out. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry.
 
Supine Being said:
I really can't see them doing anything to a lawful tourist in town to spend a little holiday money. If you went over there in a dodgy vessel, doing dodgy things and then getting arsey with the authorities about it when they call, then watch out. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry.
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Getting arsey is never a good idea.
Witnessed one case in Ostend in 2008 - when they occasionally still checked Schengen forms.
Friendly local plod (one) shows up to collect the Schengen forms and decides to call on a couple of yachts, just to check ships papers and crew list.
One skipper gets really arsey - British ensign, therefore foreign plod should keep out. Even Nelson got a mention :rolleyes:
Anyway, plod retreats to return an hour later with friends and some Douane (customs) officers in tow.
And they really go to town on him: irregularities in ships papers - no OFCOM papers AND presence of red diesel in his tanks.

When we get boarded (have been in France and Belgium) a friendly/cooperative attitude (and a cup of coffee) yields far better results than getting arsey.
Even when we were not 100% compliant with the law (it does sometimes happen ;) - red diesel in Belgium (2008) and expired flares in France (2010))
we always got off with a warning - 'don't do it again' 'wink'.

Though must admit to having been checked for red diesel once in Ostend in 2009 (when we had changed registration of the boat from UK to Belgium).
Dipped the tank and everything.
A local yacht is far more likely to get checked for red diesel than a visiting British registered yacht.
And locals have informed me that Customs is now laying of locals too pending a court ruling.
 
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So where do people stand who have genuine domestic use of their diesel and therefore are allowed to pay the lower tax on those litres?
Also where the heck am I going to get 700 litres of white in a convenient way to fill up. That still leaves the other 800 litres in the tanks that is still red!!
 
Had a chat with some Norwegian guys in a Moody 38 who stopped off in Southwold.
(looking very cold and tired, which given the weather is hardly surprising)
They're on a round trip and have visited Denmark, Holland and then down to Ostend.
Then over here to Harwich, Southwold and aim to cross back over to Holland although they set off for Lowestoft later.

Anyway, back to the point - Their tank was dipped in Holland and in Ostend.
They got a warning in Holland and received a fine in Ostend based on the capacity of their fuel tank which was estimated by the customs official at Ostend.
It turns out that they use red diesel in Norway as well.

We flushed a tank recently to try and remove the red dye for a customer with a Southerly who wanted to cruise in Holland.
It took ages to clean the tank but we thought we'd succeeded eventually.
How ever the owner returned a week or so later and sure enough the diesel still showed a significant tinge of red.
Our engineer thinks that the dye coats everything in the engine, fuel hoses, filters the lot.
So it's harder than we thought and at yard rates it's an expensive process.

My idea was to have a small secondary tank (20L) with white diesel and connected to the main filler.
Connect a fuel pipe to the filter but ensure the return goes to the old tank.
In that way the tank will stay white.
Switch over at the filter when back in UK.
Not actually tried it yet.
 
Javelin said:
Had a chat with some Norwegian guys in a Moody 38 who stopped off in Southwold.
(looking very cold and tired, which given the weather is hardly surprising)
They're on a round trip and have visited Denmark, Holland and then down to Ostend.
Then over here to Harwich, Southwold and aim to cross back over to Holland although they set off for Lowestoft later.

Anyway, back to the point - Their tank was dipped in Holland and in Ostend.
They got a warning in Holland and received a fine in Ostend based on the capacity of their fuel tank which was estimated by the customs official at Ostend.
It turns out that they use red diesel in Norway as well.

We flushed a tank recently to try and remove the red dye for a customer with a Southerly who wanted to cruise in Holland.
It took ages to clean the tank but we thought we'd succeeded eventually.
How ever the owner returned a week or so later and sure enough the diesel still showed a significant tinge of red.
Our engineer thinks that the dye coats everything in the engine, fuel hoses, filters the lot.
So it's harder than we thought and at yard rates it's an expensive process.

My idea was to have a small secondary tank (20L) with white diesel and connected to the main filler.
Connect a fuel pipe to the filter but ensure the return goes to the old tank.
In that way the tank will stay white.
Switch over at the filter when back in UK.
Not actually tried it yet.
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i went to Belgium last year with white in the tank, no special cleaning.
i then topped up back in the UK with white( very difficult to get sufficient from a forecourt)
i then went to Cherbourg,Gurnsey,St Hellier where i took advantage of £0.80 a Ltr red, bunkered 70 lts ( 1/2 a tank} the fuel still showed white.
went to North Brittany, back to St PP, Cherbourg,St Vaast,Ouisterhiem,where i bought white just to get a paid reciept, the fuel still looked white as did the sight tube & water separator.
we proceeded along the Normandy coast to Boulogne then home to Ipswich.my tank is now after this winter well down & will be replenished with white all ready for Oostende in May.
The system does not get stained in my experence.
I also suggest you check the RYA web site for Dutch regs re diesel ( assuming your a member)
Do you have proof of the Belgin fine
 
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No proof of fine, just a conversation.
Can't see they had any reason to make it up.
As for staining, we'll have to agree to differ as I've seen it.
Also seen it here in the harbour where one fisherman a year on average gets done for running his car on red.
 
Javelin said:
Anyway, back to the point - Their tank was dipped in Holland and in Ostend.
They got a warning in Holland and received a fine in Ostend based on the capacity of their fuel tank which was estimated by the customs official at Ostend.
It turns out that they use red diesel in Norway as well.
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Proof of fine?
Were they fishermen? Because it sounds like a tale fishermen would tell: I caught a fish THIS big, and then I threw it back. :rolleyes:
If 'caught' with red diesel in Belgium, it's a fixed fine (€550) - regardless of the size of the tank.

Furthermore, I would be very surprised to find Douane on the prowl for yachts this time of year - off season for yachts.
It's bloody freezing (-15C) in Belgium right now, and it's well known that customs officials round the world hate the cold.
 
Bloody bureaucrats still messing up our holidays!!
Can't afford €550 fine whatever the (unbelievably complicated/idiotic) reasons behind it.
Still don't know where liveaboards stand who are allowed to fill but pay reduced duty for cooking/heating purposes.
As far as I am concerned, until someone in a government/the EU states there is no issue, and all the Customs/Douane agree with it, I'm not able to go back to Holland or Belgium as I am not risking my hard earned cash to fund some bizzare fine about the colour of the fuel that is not even related to the duty paid and where!!
It's all bo11ox as I am getting sick of summer holidays to the South Coast of the UK sitting in Gosport in the rain........I would rather be eating moules and drinking Leffe etc
 
wingdiver said:
Bloody bureaucrats still messing up our holidays!!
Can't afford €550 fine whatever the (unbelievably complicated/idiotic) reasons behind it.
Still don't know where liveaboards stand who are allowed to fill but pay reduced duty for cooking/heating purposes.
As far as I am concerned, until someone in a government/the EU states there is no issue, and all the Customs/Douane agree with it, I'm not able to go back to Holland or Belgium as I am not risking my hard earned cash to fund some bizzare fine about the colour of the fuel that is not even related to the duty paid and where!!
It's all bo11ox as I am getting sick of summer holidays to the South Coast of the UK sitting in Gosport in the rain........I would rather be eating moules and drinking Leffe etc
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Write to the relevant Embassy`s stating your concerns & what do they suggest you do to spend your "hard earned" in Holland,Belgium & France
 
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