Tallulah
Active Member
Probably been posted already, but just in case:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/excise-duty/brief4908.htm
Not so bad really !!
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/briefs/excise-duty/brief4908.htm
Not so bad really !!
Red Diesel - the definitive article
- Thread starter Tallulah
- Start date
Sneds
Well-Known Member
Have to agree 60/40 and 5% VAT overall is how I and my diesel retailer understand it.
Could have been a lot worse..........bloody Europe, who voted to join anyway?
Could have been a lot worse..........bloody Europe, who voted to join anyway?
cliff
Well-Known Member
It will be interesting to see how many arguements arise when someone declares a 50/50 05 40/40 or even a 20/80 split or will the supplier simply say "it is 60/40 or no fuel".
I still think a 90/10 split for MoBos and a 10/90 or even a 20/80 split for sail boats is more realistic. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
I still think a 90/10 split for MoBos and a 10/90 or even a 20/80 split for sail boats is more realistic. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
Even more interesting when you turn up in France or Holland with a tank full of red and language barrier.
nedmin
Well-Known Member
what a cock up this system is.If they can make a special case by doing 60/40 they could have left it as it was or alter the vat if the miserable govt. wants more money.As Cliff says there is no differential(Heating/Propulsion) for the efficiencies of sail or displacement craft ,or for the inefficiences of craft doing 30kts.
cliff
Well-Known Member
I have not read anywhere where the 60/40 is mandatory, merely a guideline - as far as I can see the buyer can declare whatever proportion he feel is accurate however if the seller suspects "misuse" he, the seller, can report to it HMRC. It will be interesting to see what happens if sail boats declare a 20/80 split. Provided it can be demonstrated to HMRC (NOT to the seller) that 20% for propulsion is a reasonable figure (engine hours/logbook) there should not be a problem.
As I said before 60/40 on a MoBo is a joke - should be more like 90/10 and even that is generous IMO.
Where I do see aproblem arising is the sellers mistakingly taking the 60/40 split as law
As I said before 60/40 on a MoBo is a joke - should be more like 90/10 and even that is generous IMO.
Where I do see aproblem arising is the sellers mistakingly taking the 60/40 split as law
sailorman
Well-Known Member
wot happens if i but white from the forecourt & declare 100% heating ect /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
cliff
Well-Known Member
You pay full whack as "white" is not rebated heating oil.
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Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
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DAKA
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
As I said before 60/40 on a MoBo is a joke - should be more like 90/10 and even that is generous IMO.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dont forget Cliff that a 25 knot stinker is outside the UK waters 12 limit in half an hour and should be on red then /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
As I said before 60/40 on a MoBo is a joke - should be more like 90/10 and even that is generous IMO.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dont forget Cliff that a 25 knot stinker is outside the UK waters 12 limit in half an hour and should be on red then /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
awol
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
As I said before 60/40 on a MoBo is a joke - should be more like 90/10 and even that is generous IMO.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dont forget Cliff that a 25 knot stinker is outside the UK waters 12 limit in half an hour and should be on red then /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, you've totally lost me with that one. What does it matter where you use it? It's where you buy it, whether you are commercial or no, and how big a fib you tell about your domestic use that matters.
[ QUOTE ]
As I said before 60/40 on a MoBo is a joke - should be more like 90/10 and even that is generous IMO.
[/ QUOTE ]
Dont forget Cliff that a 25 knot stinker is outside the UK waters 12 limit in half an hour and should be on red then /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry, you've totally lost me with that one. What does it matter where you use it? It's where you buy it, whether you are commercial or no, and how big a fib you tell about your domestic use that matters.
hlb
RIP
Thats crap. Once 12 miles out. your in international waters. Loads of boats/ships can buy fuel anywhere they wish, depenent on range. So especially with a sailly boat, just where are you going to switch your engine on. You may be 2,000 miles away by then.
epervier
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
As I said before 60/40 on a MoBo is a joke - should be more like 90/10 and even that is generous IMO.
Where I do see aproblem arising is the sellers mistakingly taking the 60/40 split as law
[/ QUOTE ]
Thankfully your opinion, in this case, is worth Nought.
it's bad enough having to swallow this anyway, without also having to listen to the infighting within our own people,
that's what's wrong with this country, nobody is prepared to stand and tell the elected Representatives what WE want, just moan about it and cry in to your beer
As for the 60/40 split, it is a guide only and up to the purchaser to declare their individual usage.
As I said before 60/40 on a MoBo is a joke - should be more like 90/10 and even that is generous IMO.
Where I do see aproblem arising is the sellers mistakingly taking the 60/40 split as law
[/ QUOTE ]
Thankfully your opinion, in this case, is worth Nought.
it's bad enough having to swallow this anyway, without also having to listen to the infighting within our own people,
that's what's wrong with this country, nobody is prepared to stand and tell the elected Representatives what WE want, just moan about it and cry in to your beer
As for the 60/40 split, it is a guide only and up to the purchaser to declare their individual usage.
samwestwood
Well-Known Member
ok as a seller i understand it as...
The user declears the split he wants.
The seller is NOT an inforcer.
The seller colects the extra duty and then sends it to the hmrc.
Diesel price likely to be between 112.36p and 116.46p to the end user based on current bulk costs
The user declears the split he wants.
The seller is NOT an inforcer.
The seller colects the extra duty and then sends it to the hmrc.
Diesel price likely to be between 112.36p and 116.46p to the end user based on current bulk costs
rickp
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Diesel price likely to be between 112.36p and 116.46p to the end user based on current bulk costs
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't know how you get that - it seems more than everyone else (even MDL) are thinking. At 60/40 split, it will be 25.6p/litre more than current pump prices.
Rick
Diesel price likely to be between 112.36p and 116.46p to the end user based on current bulk costs
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't know how you get that - it seems more than everyone else (even MDL) are thinking. At 60/40 split, it will be 25.6p/litre more than current pump prices.
Rick
RogerRat
Well-Known Member
I don't think you've been out recently. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Generally, we prefer to go out when the winds are light and seas flatter. The winds have been blowing F4-7 most weeks through the summer, even saily wafi' boats didn't go out much from Chichester. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
In the last 3 weeks, we've had two light wind weekends and guess what? The south coast and hamble scramble to the island was full of yachts under power (with no cone) or becalmed racers motoring to the start area or back home. Most of the sailing boats don't even have heaters or generators but they'll still claim their 60/40 too.
It's not supposed to be an accurate split, just a guidline, there are many boats, sail and power that never leave the marina or river.
I also think this government is aware of the damage to the UK boating industry a massive fuel hike could bring and this way they can be seen to follow EU directive.
Any split will be fair or less fair depending on your stance, but sailing boats will still pay as much %wise but on less fuel than us. But then again, we do travel at speeds in excess of (classified). /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Personally, I think most boats in UK waters that are in commission, 12 months will get close to the 60/40 and this is as 'fair' as we could have hoped for.
Generally, we prefer to go out when the winds are light and seas flatter. The winds have been blowing F4-7 most weeks through the summer, even saily wafi' boats didn't go out much from Chichester. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
In the last 3 weeks, we've had two light wind weekends and guess what? The south coast and hamble scramble to the island was full of yachts under power (with no cone) or becalmed racers motoring to the start area or back home. Most of the sailing boats don't even have heaters or generators but they'll still claim their 60/40 too.
It's not supposed to be an accurate split, just a guidline, there are many boats, sail and power that never leave the marina or river.
I also think this government is aware of the damage to the UK boating industry a massive fuel hike could bring and this way they can be seen to follow EU directive.
Any split will be fair or less fair depending on your stance, but sailing boats will still pay as much %wise but on less fuel than us. But then again, we do travel at speeds in excess of (classified). /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
Personally, I think most boats in UK waters that are in commission, 12 months will get close to the 60/40 and this is as 'fair' as we could have hoped for.
Chris_d
Well-Known Member
Here we go then, poor maths results in incorrect prices but nobodies really sure what the correct price is or how to work it out, then theres the opportunity to add a bit on because a price increase is expected. Just glad my tankfull will last until this time next year, hopefully it will have calmed down a bit.
rickp
Well-Known Member
The sum you need is (% for propulsion * 40.66p/litre + vat), so for 60% the increase will be 25.6p/litre (0.6*40.66*1.05).
MDL has written to bertholders and said that based on a price of 74p/litre than it will be 99.1p/litre from November 1st (and the 10% discount for bertholders will apply on top of that).
Rick
MDL has written to bertholders and said that based on a price of 74p/litre than it will be 99.1p/litre from November 1st (and the 10% discount for bertholders will apply on top of that).
Rick
Chris_d
Well-Known Member
Well they can't add up either then /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif based on 74ppl it should be 103.3ppl. The HMRC example of 70ppl was 99.1ppl.
rickp
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well they can't add up either then /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif based on 74ppl it should be 103.3ppl. The HMRC example of 70ppl was 99.1ppl.
[/ QUOTE ]
The HMRC example was based on 73.5p/litre (70p/litre+VAT).
Rick
Well they can't add up either then /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif based on 74ppl it should be 103.3ppl. The HMRC example of 70ppl was 99.1ppl.
[/ QUOTE ]
The HMRC example was based on 73.5p/litre (70p/litre+VAT).
Rick
Chris_d
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well they can't add up either then /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif based on 74ppl it should be 103.3ppl. The HMRC example of 70ppl was 99.1ppl.
[/ QUOTE ]
The HMRC example was based on 73.5p/litre (70p/litre+VAT).
Rick
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you sure?? looks like 70p here:
This example assumes a 60% (propulsion) and 40% (domestic) split for a purchase of 100 litres of red diesel (the price of diesel is assumed to be 0.70ppl which includes 9.69 ppl duty already paid to fuel supplier):
Propulsion calculation (ie 60 per cent)
60 litres @ 0.70ppl = £42
60 litres @ 0.4066 = £24.40 (additional duty)
VAT @ 5% = £3.32
Propulsion Total = £69.72
Domestic calculation (ie 40 per cent)
40 litres @ 0.70ppl = £28
VAT @ 5% = £1.40
Domestic Total = £29.40
Transaction Total = £99.12
[ QUOTE ]
Well they can't add up either then /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif based on 74ppl it should be 103.3ppl. The HMRC example of 70ppl was 99.1ppl.
[/ QUOTE ]
The HMRC example was based on 73.5p/litre (70p/litre+VAT).
Rick
[/ QUOTE ]
Are you sure?? looks like 70p here:
This example assumes a 60% (propulsion) and 40% (domestic) split for a purchase of 100 litres of red diesel (the price of diesel is assumed to be 0.70ppl which includes 9.69 ppl duty already paid to fuel supplier):
Propulsion calculation (ie 60 per cent)
60 litres @ 0.70ppl = £42
60 litres @ 0.4066 = £24.40 (additional duty)
VAT @ 5% = £3.32
Propulsion Total = £69.72
Domestic calculation (ie 40 per cent)
40 litres @ 0.70ppl = £28
VAT @ 5% = £1.40
Domestic Total = £29.40
Transaction Total = £99.12