red diesel reply from meps

[zingaro]

Recieved a reply from gary titley MEP leader of the european parliamentary labour party stating that they are still waiting for the european commission to finally make a decision on wether they are going to allow the uk a extension to the derogation. In the meantime he states that labour MEPs are doing everything we can to bring pressure to bear on the commission to extend the UKs derogation. Also got a reply from sir Robert Atkins MEP which i have posted below.
Dear Mr Palmer
Thank you for your enquiry regarding red diesel.

EU Directive 2003/96 (also known as the Energy Tax Directive) set out
minimum tax rates for fuel across the EU in order to achieve the
objectives of EU employment, environment, transport and energy policies,
whilst respecting the internal market.

There were 127 derogations to this Directive, most of which were due to
expire in December 2006. The UK, Finland, Belgium, Ireland and Malta
enjoyed a derogation of lower excise duty on diesel used for certain
purposes: off-road vehicles such as most agricultural vehicles and
machinery, vehicles used in motorway construction, forestry, mining and
quarrying, and diesel locomotives. This diesel is dyed red to
distinguish it from diesel used as road fuel. The derogation for the use
of red diesel in commercial vessels and private leisure craft expires at
the end of this year. You will note that all except "private leisure
craft" are commercial or industrial uses. One might well query why fuel
for leisure craft should be taxed much lower than fuel for other leisure
pursuits.


The EU only lays down minimum rates of duty to be paid and the
individual member states are then free to decide the rates above the EU
minimum, which they will charge their citizens. The problem in the UK is
therefore the relatively high level of tax on all taxed fuel compared to
other EU countries. You may wish to write to your local MP to enquire
why fuel duty is so high in the UK.

Following lobbying in Westminster, the UK government announced in its
budget report in March this year that it would apply once again for this
same derogation. The European Commission is now preparing its report to
the European Council of Ministers assessing all the current derogations.

My colleague James Elles MEP has written to the European Commissioner
for Taxation, Commissioner Kovacs, and has tabled a written
parliamentary question on this matter in an effort to resolve this
matter.

Yours sincerely

The Rt. Hon. Sir Robert Atkins MEP

 

[Dave_Snelson]

"The derogation for the use of red diesel in commercial vessels and private leisure craft expires at the end of this year. You will note that all except "private leisure craft" are commercial or industrial uses. One might well query why fuel for leisure craft should be taxed much lower than fuel for other leisure pursuits."

Sadly, he has a point.

 

[Nick_H]

[ QUOTE ]
The EU only lays down minimum rates of duty to be paid

[/ QUOTE ]

So the EU serves its population by prescribing a minimum level of taxation but no maximum. Gee, thanks guys ... now where's that UKIP brochure ...

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Yes - that crossed my mind as well, because it shoots holes in any argument about tax "harmonisation". And here's me thinking that the whole thing was about harmonisation??

 

[lyc]

[ QUOTE ]
The UK, Finland, Belgium, Ireland and Malta
enjoyed a derogation of lower excise duty on diesel used for certain
purposes: off-road vehicles such as most agricultural vehicles and
machinery, vehicles used in motorway construction, forestry, mining and
quarrying, and diesel locomotives. This diesel is dyed red to
distinguish it from diesel used as road fuel

[/ QUOTE ]

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[gjgm]

i think its been re-iterated countless times on various posts that never has had anything to do with harmonisation of taxation, other than a harmonisation of the minimum that is!

 

[SimonC]

[ QUOTE ]
"The derogation for the use of red diesel in commercial vessels and private leisure craft expires at the end of this year. You will note that all except "private leisure craft" are commercial or industrial uses. One might well query why fuel for leisure craft should be taxed much lower than fuel for other leisure pursuits."

[/ QUOTE ]

How about because fuel for leisure craft does not entail the upkeep of the hugely expensive, high-maintenance road network that our fuel tax is intended to pay for?

 

[gandy]

What's the taxation rate on fuel for private aircraft?

 

[masaccio]

So presumably MBM is campaigning for cheap petrol for RIBs, PWCs and other petrol-engined craft? And by that reasoning, shouldn't private aircraft, microlights, racing cars and go-peds also be entitled to cheap fuel?

 

[Gludy]

Tax should never be argued from the point of view - why not.

It should always need to be justified as to 'why?'

That 'why' has to take into account all the factors and if you do that in this case, damage will be done and no more tax raised hence it is not justified.

 

[epervier]

[ QUOTE ]
How about because fuel for leisure craft does not entail the upkeep of the hugely expensive, high-maintenance road network that our fuel tax is intended to pay for?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's no argument, President Blair told you, back during the fuel protests, the tax is also used for education and health services, if they spent the revenue on the roads they ought to be the best in Europe, but a short drive over this side will tell you they're crap, because the French have a fabulous road infrastructure far better than Britain!

It's governments in general, and labour in particular, anyway to screw you for more tax they'll find it!

Just get a half decent trailer and some 45gallon oil drums buy 28sec oil from your central heating supplier, jobs agoodin, or go bio there are suppliers already selling it in bulk 60p a litre, OK I know it's not 40p but, it's better than 98p pump prices.

You know you can't win and all the bitchin' on forums ain't going to change a thing.

Until the British voters get off their asses and make a stand like these kermits do (and they get results) the government of the day will walk all over you and at the same time telling you it's good for you!

Definition of a politician;- person who doesn't answer questions and lies for a living.

 

[Dave_Snelson]

Unfortunately (and quite sneakily) the goal posts have been moved. Where the duty on fuel was previously stated as "road fuel duty", you will find that that definition is now largely unspoken and it is now just "fuel duty".

Did you ever read Animal Farm at school?

One of the farms mantras started out as "Four legs good, two legs bad" and ended up, after a few animals gained absolute control, as "Four legs good, two legs better".

Just a slight change in the wording, you understand...

 

[Gludy]

Well now they are attempting to vote themselves a 60% pay rise because they have been so succesful in raising taxes!!! Does sound a bit like Animal Farm because everything is for our own good.

The new environmental taxes are levied to protect the environment but where is the tax reduction elsewhere to balance it? Or is that a really stupid question?

 

[Kawasaki]

If the European "Animals" gain control We won't have a Leg to stand on!

 

[SimonC]

Tom - we only campaign where we have a chance of winning. On red diesel we do. On cheap petrol, we don't.

 

[epervier]

[ QUOTE ]
Well now they are attempting to vote themselves a 60% pay rise because they have been so successful in raising taxes!!! Does sound a bit like Animal Farm because everything is for our own good.

The new environmental taxes are levied to protect the environment but where is the tax reduction elsewhere to balance it? Or is that a really stupid question?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've always believed that we under pay our Representatives, so as the adage goes," you pay peanuts"....

If you paid captain of industry Salaries you'd end up with people who know how to run big business and make a profit,and when they screw up they get sacked,

With the current calibre of reps you have in the UK , if they screw up they knight themselves or award a peerage and move next door for even more money, or if they screw up several times, give them a job as the EU trade commissioner.

After all, Britain is only a big business that requires experienced management, instead of someone who sat in a seat for 18 years, knowing nothing of how it's done, and then thrown in at the deep end.

My sincere apologies to the OP I've veered way off topic with this, but those Bar-steward politicians, really piss me off.

 

[alan17]

They (Captains of industry)might get sacked when they screw up but the sack is usually stuffed with a handsome pay off in "compensation". Are we also going to give MP's a pay off when the electorate kick them ouy. I think not.

 

[epervier]

[ QUOTE ]
They (Captains of industry)might get sacked when they screw up but the sack is usually stuffed with a handsome pay off in "compensation". Are we also going to give MP's a pay off when the electorate kick them ouy. I think not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes you do! they have a hansom pension and indexed linked!

Have a look here it'll scare you how much they get!
http://www.parliament.uk/parliamentary_publications_and_archives/factsheets/m05.cfm

 

[masaccio]

Fair enough...was just playing devil's advocaat. But FWIW, I personally don't see much mileage in using the "it's not for road use so we shouldn't pay high tax on it" argument when there are plenty of other people out there who are already paying high rates of tax on their fuel when they're not using the roads (PWCs, sportsboats, etc).

 

[Gludy]

Again - you should not argue that you 'why not pay a tax'.
If you want to tax they should argue why it should be taxed and using the examples so far it does not make sense.

For example:-
I think they should tax the full whack on red to bring it up to raod rates of tax because other pleasure users are charged that high rate is not the way to go because it assumes that tax is a right and that it has a unversal logic to it. It is not a right and has no unversial logic.

If PWCs may use red diesel if they wish - there is no law stopping them doing that. What stops them doing that is the supply of product and the scale of use. So what you are saying is that MoBos should have the same rules applied and i totally agree - the fact is that if a MoBo chooses to use petrol they choose to pay the higher tax but they can change to red diesel if they wish.

So you are asking for a higher rate of tax not because it applies to someone else but because their particular use chooses to use petrol even though there is no law saying they cannot use much cheaper red diesel....... think about it, the argument is rubbish and based on wrong assumptions.