Red Diesel petition dead

[NoviceRod]

Just received the following email. With only 4109 Signatures it looks as if this was going nowhere anyway!

Dear NoviceRod,

You recently signed the petition:

Allow private pleasure boat users to use red diesel at commercial rate of duty
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/269295

Because of the General Election, the closing date for the petition you signed has changed. All petitions now have to close at 00:01am on 6 November. This is because Parliament will be dissolved, which means all parliamentary business – including petitions – will come to an end until after the election. This means the petitions site will be closed and people will not be able to start or sign petitions.

We’re sorry we weren’t able to give you more notice that this would happen.

The petition will be available for people to read on the site even though it will be closed for signatures. This petition won’t be reopened after the election.

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Many thanks,
The Petitions team
UK Government and Parliament

 

[Momac]

Most boat owners seem unconcerned and the general view is there is no justification for paying less than full road duty.

 

[BruceK]

I think it has more to do with the fact it was poorly worded and without an arguable justification but more importantly was the wrong forum to lodge an appeal when there was an existing one from HMRC

 

[ctva]

Most boat owners seem unconcerned and the general view is there is no justification for paying less than full road duty.

It is not the cost, it is the availability. Just because 'most boat owners' are on the south coast where marinas are ten a penny, does not make it a practical option else where.

 

[NoviceRod]

It is not the cost, it is the availability. Just because 'most boat owners' are on the south coast where marinas are ten a penny, does not make it a practical option else where.

That was my concern too. My nearest diesel is at Brixham, which is a fishing port, and MDL source their diesel from there. They will have to go elsewhere for white diesel.

 

[maby]

Most boat owners seem unconcerned and the general view is there is no justification for paying less than full road duty.

I'm not sure that we are "unconcerned" - more a case of "resigned". At least while we are in the EU, we were never going to win the battle - it is so clearly in contravention of the EU rules and there is no interest in the rest of the EU to change those rules for British sailors. If we do ever leave the EU, then there could be scope to continue with the supply of red diesel, but I doubt any government would put a decent trade deal at risk simply to allow us to carry on buying marked fuel!

 

[Momac]

. I doubt any government would put a decent trade deal at risk simply to allow us to carry on buying marked fuel!

I agree.
Nor can the judgement of the EU court be disregarded whether we are in the EU or not.

 

[Momac]

They will have to go elsewhere for white diesel.

What's the difficulty with that?

 

[Momac]

It is not the cost, it is the availability. Just because 'most boat owners' are on the south coast where marinas are ten a penny, does not make it a practical option else where.

Some journeys may not be possible without needing to top up with red diesel at certain commercial ports or risk running out if fuel.
If not leaving UK waters I dont see a problem with it. Full duty will obviously need to be paid.

 

[Greg2]

Interesting point about no justification for paying less than full road duty for diesel. To my mind there are two counter arguments - one is that that the level of tax paid on the forecourt is not justified and the second is that road duty is based upon consumption by road vehicles whereas boats are a different thing entirely. Both only debating points of course and the climate debate has added a whole new dimension.

The real issue with losing red is availability - perhaps not a biggie on inland waterways because they are primarily populated by leisure boats with relatively low consumption but it is a different matter on the coast and particularly in areas north of the Solent. There may ultimately be a requirement for dual infrastructure to supply both red and white with costs of such being passed on to the consumer.

Bottom line is that we may well end up paying more than the forecourt price.

 

[ari]

and the second is that road duty is based upon consumption by road vehicles whereas boats are a different thing entirely. .

I believe it is 'fuel duty', rather than 'road duty'. So nothing to do with roads.

 

[maby]

I believe it is 'fuel duty', rather than 'road duty'. So nothing to do with roads.

It's a long time since there was any pretence that the duty on fuel was going to be spent on the roads.

 

[ari]

True, likewise 'road tax'!

Hence the state of the roads no doubt...

 

[Greg2]

I believe it is 'fuel duty', rather than 'road duty'. So nothing to do with roads.

My point is that the effect of high levels of taxation on something that does 50mpg is different to something that does 1mpg - perhaps why we had access to red in the first place? Only speculating, I don’t know the origins of red use for leisure boats.

 

[Momac]

My point is that the effect of high levels of taxation on something that does 50mpg is different to something that does 1mpg - perhaps why we had access to red in the first place? Only speculating, I don’t know the origins of red use for leisure boats.

I have no doubt it does originate from being for non road use. This still applies to farm machinery and construction plant for example.

 

[LittleSister]

It doesn't matter as red diesel is being phased out. After Brexit we'll have red, white and blue diesel!

 

[jcwads]

With anything like this, the government is going to win anyway. They always do. Trying to campaign against it would be as useful as putting water in your fuel tanks.

Either way, with the environmental impact and increasing international awareness to lowering our carbon footprints, paying the full price of white diesel seems immaterial to me as a motor boat owner.

Just my 2 pence worth.

 

[BruceK]

It doesn't matter as red diesel is being phased out. After Brexit we'll have red, white and blue diesel!

Purple?

With anything like this, the government is going to win anyway. They always do. Trying to campaign against it would be as useful as putting water in your fuel tanks.

Either way, with the environmental impact and increasing international awareness to lowering our carbon footprints, paying the full price of white diesel seems immaterial to me as a motor boat owner.

Just my 2 pence worth.

Raising the price wont diminish the use so it's nothing more than a punitive gesture unless they can show that the raised revenue is going back into development of greener propulsion of powered boats

 

[oldgit]

Purple?



Raising the price wont diminish the use so it's nothing more than a punitive gesture unless they can show that the raised revenue is going back into development of greener propulsion of powered boats

The increasing price of diesel has proved over the years to have been a factor in the amount of boat use in our club.
Many of our club members who have been boating for since the early 1960s and 1970s have repeated their assertion that the cost of fuel has been deciding factor in not undertaking longer trips.We are very lucky round here with a wide choice of worthwhile destinations available.
Whereas a weekend return trip to Ramsgate, around 150 miles, would have once be something somebody would have suggested after few drinks on a Friday night, it is now something to be carefully considered.ie. Is worth all that money for a couple of days away ?
.10 hours @ 3 gallons at hour ie. £120. at club prices..
The days of impromtu lets go for a spin have diminished considerably and these folks are the comfortably retired with the time and probably the money. On the spur trips to France or Belgium were not uncommon
The main movement now is definately shorter distances of longer duration to get value for money.

 

[Momac]

Many of our club members who have been boating for since the early 1960s and 1970s have repeated their assertion that the cost of fuel has been deciding factor in not undertaking longer trips.
.................................
The main movement now is definately shorter distances of longer duration to get value for money.

Without wishing to seem disrespectful….. Might that be a symptom of older age of the people rather than the cost?