Red diesel - French advice

[Aries]

I asked a French friend based in St Malo what the French view on red diesel would be. Here is his reply.

Concerning the red fuel, I just have the French custom answer.
British sailors coming in France must have the invoice showing on it the fuel tax has been paid in UK. This invoice will be produce to French custom if requested. French authorities consider we can use red fuel in fixed tanks, since we have paid taxes applying on fuel even the rate tax is different than in France. But it is forbidden to carry red fuel in jerrycan. The same regulations apply for French sailing back from UK.

Actual negociations between UK government and EU authorities indicate red fuel should be soon replaced by white fuel in UK marinas (French custom source). (INTERESTING COMMENT!)

I regularly make fuel in Jersey or Guernesey and by memory the fuel is white. Nevertheless, I should have on board the invoice with fuel tax.

Five boats are visiting Cherbourg in mid May to join a rally there. We will bring white back with us!

 

[Sans Bateau]

Thanks for that, it would be nice to get something like that from the relevant French ministerial department.

 

[maby]

Thanks for that, it would be nice to get something like that from the relevant French ministerial department.

Indeed!

 

[Garold]

I think that the French are not necessarily to blame for their lack of clarity.

It may be a bit rich of us to expect the French govt. to have a well discussed and clearly decided view on this matter. Especially when our own govt have clearly created an impossible situation that gets them through a sticky patch with local-water British yachties, but doesn't really give any of us a clear agreement/arrangement with any other EU country that we may wish to visit.

Cheers

Garold

 

[Aries]

From the French side

I think that the French are not necessarily to blame for their lack of clarity.

It may be a bit rich of us to expect the French govt. to have a well discussed and clearly decided view on this matter. Especially when our own govt have clearly created an impossible situation that gets them through a sticky patch with local-water British yachties, but doesn't really give any of us a clear agreement/arrangement with any other EU country that we may wish to visit.

Cheers

Garold

I don't believe that the French have any view on this matter. My question to my friend in France was simply to find out how the French would react. He gave the answer I expected. I still plan to go to France, with all my receipts.
I agree that our Government have caused a very confused situation and can not seem to get out of it. (A bit like the petrol cock up they have caused - there is no strike, but they have caused people to panic, causing a self made shortage at the pumps and in the distribution system. Organising a pi$$up in brewery comes to mind!) The Goverment and the RYA seem to have washed their hands on the matter and are not concerned about their countryment / members who wish to travel abroad.

 

[maby]

I think that the French are not necessarily to blame for their lack of clarity.

It may be a bit rich of us to expect the French govt. to have a well discussed and clearly decided view on this matter. Especially when our own govt have clearly created an impossible situation that gets them through a sticky patch with local-water British yachties, but doesn't really give any of us a clear agreement/arrangement with any other EU country that we may wish to visit.

Cheers

Garold

I would not try to blame them - but it would be nice if they could make their views on the subject clear. British sailors must be a useful source of income to the French ports along the Channel coast and a degree of certainty that we will not be fined would be a big plus!

 

[Talulah]

But it is forbidden to carry red fuel in jerrycan.

I suspect quite a few boats are guilty of this. I think the emergency fuel in my spare can is red diesel.

 

[maby]

I suspect quite a few boats are guilty of this. I think the emergency fuel in my spare can is red diesel.

I don't think it is against the rules here, is it? Red diesel can legally be used here in vehicles that cannot legally be used on the road, so it would seem necessary that users could carry fuel in cans to the vehicle. Not sure what classes of user are permitted marked diesel in France, but I would guess that farmers are allowed to carry it in cans to tractors and other permitted plant. I think it is just leisure boats in continental ports that are banned from it.

 

[Talulah]

I don't think it is against the rules here, is it? Red diesel can legally be used here in vehicles that cannot legally be used on the road, so it would seem necessary that users could carry fuel in cans to the vehicle. Not sure what classes of user are permitted marked diesel in France, but I would guess that farmers are allowed to carry it in cans to tractors and other permitted plant. I think it is just leisure boats in continental ports that are banned from it.

Apologies. I was responding in reference to the French post and boats transporting cans of red diesel to France. It's certainly not illegal here.

 

[benjenbav]

Thanks. Interesting comments.

Actual negociations between UK government and EU authorities indicate red fuel should be soon replaced by white fuel in UK marinas (French custom source).

"Soon" so far as HMG is concerned could mean any time between about "10 years hence" and "never"

 

[prv]

It's been the case ever since the French switched to white, that you can't take red across in cans. Increased "risk" of you selling it to locals, compared to siphoning out of tanks.

Pete

 

[Sans Bateau]

Strange thing is, up until last year the 20L of white diesel as my spare had been bought in Guernsey so had very little EU tax on it, no! It had no EU tax did it! I must refill it before the summer, with white at a petrol station.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

A bit like the petrol cock up they have caused - there is no strike, but they have caused people to panic,.

No they havent. It's the great British public whose attitude is " f*** everyone else - if there is going to be a shortage I will get my snout in the trough first."
Used to be a time when we had consideration for others but thats long gone.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

I regularly make fuel in Jersey or Guernesey and by memory the fuel is white. Nevertheless, I should have on board the invoice with fuel tax.

We've recently had that debate and apparently the fuel in the CI is now red as confirmed by some residents. Where this leaves you I do not know since you will have red in the tank with no invoice to prove duty paid to the froggies.

 

[Bav34]

We've recently had that debate and apparently the fuel in the CI is now red as confirmed by some residents. Where this leaves you I do not know since you will have red in the tank with no invoice to prove duty paid to the froggies.

When I said it was red I was told it was white

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3279732&postcount=29

 

[maby]

We've recently had that debate and apparently the fuel in the CI is now red as confirmed by some residents. Where this leaves you I do not know since you will have red in the tank with no invoice to prove duty paid to the froggies.

The theory, at least, is that the French should accept that, since the CIs are outside the EU, EU restrictions do not apply. Of course the recent cases of German customs stopping American boats show that this does not always work!

 

[Badoir]

I don't believe that the French have any view on this matter. My question to my friend in France was simply to find out how the French would react. He gave the answer I expected. I still plan to go to France, with all my receipts.
I agree that our Government have caused a very confused situation and can not seem to get out of it. (A bit like the petrol cock up they have caused - there is no strike, but they have caused people to panic, causing a self made shortage at the pumps and in the distribution system. Organising a pi$$up in brewery comes to mind!) The Goverment and the RYA seem to have washed their hands on the matter and are not concerned about their countryment / members who wish to travel abroad.

Contrary to what you say, RYA have been working on this constantly for the past few months, and particularly since the confusing statement from the Minister a few weeks back. The result is that there is now a clear UK Government position, which will - hopefully - mean that the EC will withdraw the action against the UK on red diesel. For full info, see the latest RYA Cruising News, which also contains a link to a Q&A session with Gus Lewis (RYA Legal) with MBM and PBO. Link is http://www.rya.org.uk/cruising/Pages/default.aspx

 

[Tidewaiter2]

Cherbourg update

Was in Port Chantrye, Monday 02.00 til Wed am. Plan A was start diluting our tank with French white.

Diesel pump due for repair Wed/Thurs, broke finally over weekend.So plan A shot. Pump u/s Wed-Friday By time we left.

So make sure you have enough fuel or check before hand. Port Ch very worried over red issue.

Two big UK events cancelling because of all this doubt. They are aware of effect on Town too.
big Carrefour not open, just one big building site now.
Am going to refill with red in UK.

I'll save the 20l 'Maudecan' of French white we got jic, for the car here!
Plan B 205/210 drum quayside delivery here non starter at moment, due to fuel crisis
We used to be able to walk /catch a bus, even to school, in this nation!

 

[Sybarite]

Thanks for that, it would be nice to get something like that from the relevant French ministerial department.

Some would not believe it if you did.

However the more you shake the apple cart, the more likely you are to stimulate systematic checks.

 

[[10753]]

Thank you Aries, useful information - wonder if its the same in Holland now leaving just the Belgiums not playing ball ?