Red / Blue ensigns, will they stick out like a sore thumb after B*****

[overstag]

The fact that there appears to be a "Heraldry Committee" has made my day…….
I don't think there's anybody anywhere in the EU that would be concerned about any sort of ensign you fly. Approved by the Heraldry Committee or otherwise…

 

[Old Bumbulum]

I don't think there's anybody anywhere in the EU that would be concerned about any sort of ensign you fly. Approved by the Heraldry Committee or otherwise…

On the contrary, I suspect there are many places in Europe that might, if they felt the need, be concerned if your ensign was not a genuine one. Failure to display the correct ensign can prefectly reasonably be interpreted as an attempt to disguise or hide a vessel's nationality; that being it's sole purpose how could any attempt to disguise the fact be seen as anything but nefarious?

Bear in mind few nations in the world take such a jaundiced and cynical view of their own nationality as the British. Most are proud of where they come from, as are many Brits.

Show a Turkish courtesy flag that is even a little faded or showing any sign of wear anf you will be told firmly to replace it immediately, even by members of the public. What do you suppose they're likely to make of a fake ensign?

 

[macd]

...I very much doubt any European in or out of uniform is going to be the least bit bothered about our flags post brexit.

I suspect there are many places in Europe that might, if they felt the need, be concerned if your ensign was not a genuine one.

That rather depends on the nature of Brexit and specifically arrangements made regarding entry for people and vessels. Sooner or later the UK will probably assume the status of "third country". I can assure you that appropriate "Europeans in or out of uniform" are charged with taking a particular interest in third country nationals, boats and their contents. The UK will no doubt take a similar interest in EU27 boats and people, not least because that's what its citizens seemed to vote for.

As for "genuine", I doubt it's the OP's intention to wear an ensign which does not legitimately represent his boat's flag state.

 

[Kukri]

On a point of order there is no such thing as an EU "Ensign" of course, as the EU is not a nation or state it cannot have one. Were it so it would show grave disrespect to place it below another ensign...

I too have thought of flying the EU flag below a courtesy ensign though I very much doubt any European in or out of uniform is going to be the least bit bothered about our flags post brexit.

Thank you and you are quite right.

It makes those of us who do it feel better.

 

[grafozz]

I wonder what all the UK registered boats owned by Greeks will do after Brexit ,
as they will find themselves in the same predicament as UK nationals with possible restrictions on time spent in EU waters ?
The Greek authorities would like nothing better than to see all foreign flagged boats registering back into Greece !

 

[Tranona]

I wonder what all the UK registered boats owned by Greeks will do after Brexit ,
as they will find themselves in the same predicament as UK nationals with possible restrictions on time spent in EU waters ?
The Greek authorities would like nothing better than to see all foreign flagged boats registering back into Greece !

As has been discussed here many times it is not the flag of registration that determines whether a boat can move freely around the EU, but whether it is deemed "community goods" which means VAT has been paid.

Given the record of Greece in trying to impose any rules on boats owned by their citizens in the past, difficult to see how they could achieve what you suggest.

 

[Chris_Robb]

As has been discussed here many times it is not the flag of registration that determines whether a boat can move freely around the EU, but whether it is deemed "community goods" which means VAT has been paid.

Given the record of Greece in trying to impose any rules on boats owned by their citizens in the past, difficult to see how they could achieve what you suggest.

Given their record, they have now resorted to taxing every damn boat in existence in their waters, as this will mean that those registered to non EU flags will be caught and will now have to pay tax. SO they dont pay and we become the meat in the sandwich in order to get them to pay..... Mind you, the ones that do pay, pay a lot of money in relation to their income.... Greece is probably not a sustainable model...... bit similar to the EU perhaps..:disgust:

 

[BigJoe]

One of the reasons I asked the original question regarding flags, was during our 2 weeks stay in Port Soller Mallorca, in the summer, about 50 boats were anchored most days.
One day the Spanish customs turned up, and over a couple of days, boarded every non-EU flagged boat, about 12 boats, (US, Australian, New Zealand etc). They did not board any EU boats.

Anyone who believes that after 29th March 2019, things will stay the same, is in my opinion, naive.

 

[nortada]

One of the reasons I asked the original question regarding flags, was during our 2 weeks stay in Port Soller Mallorca, in the summer, about 50 boats were anchored most days.
One day the Spanish customs turned up, and over a couple of days, boarded every non-EU flagged boat, about 12 boats, (US, Australian, New Zealand etc). They did not board any EU boats.

Anyone who believes that after 29th March 2019, things will stay the same, is in my opinion, naive.

Do you know the outcome of these boardings?

 

[BigJoe]

Do you know the outcome of these boardings?

The boardings were just routine for non-EU flagged boats, we spoke with a few of the boarded boats afterwards and they said this happens from time to time, in Mallorca, during the summer.

 

[macd]

The boardings were just routine for non-EU flagged boats...

That's probably to be expected. As explained above, flag state is not the determinant of a boat's status so far as it (and its crew) are concerned. But, getting back to your original post, it is the only obvious indicator that boat and/or crew may have less entitlement than an EU flagged vessel and thus merit further routine investigation.

That said, I wore a non-EU flag (Isle of Man) for years in the Med without attracting any more attention than anyone else, but perhaps because most observers wouldn't know it from a UK red ensign. (And even fewer would be aware of the IoM's anomalous relationship with the EU.)

 

[Tranona]

Anyone who believes that after 29th March 2019, things will stay the same, is in my opinion, naive.

At some point in the exit negotiations a set of rules will be agreed as to the status of UK boats in the EU. As said, it is nothing to do with flag or the owners, but will revolve around VAT status. I do not envy the poor folks who have to write these rules because apart from the "political" angle there will need to be definitions of "UK" to place boats in a category with specific rights.

Unlike now when the majority of third country flagged boats are subject to restrictions in the EU, either because of their ownership, tax status or travel restrictions of crew so attract attention from authorities any new status for UK vessels however defined will not have the same restrictions. Whether this results in greater interest from EU state authorities is anyone's guess.

As we know, most of the "fears" about post March 29th are vastly overstated, whatever the final mechanism for withdrawal. This does not mean one should be complacent, but speculation at this stage is just that.

 

[alexsailor]

2019 will be a year to remember when sailing in Greece:
1.) Greek cruising tax
2.) Brexit

Both will probably have an effect on a daily dose of Mythos...

 

[Jamestkirk]

Wonderful!