Recommendation wanted for a trailerable cabin cruiser around 1 tonne

[Spi D]

...
Little bit heavier........but still a light trailer boat.

Not really, alone the 2.60m width makes it impossible. A weight of 1600 kg dry without engine excludes it from the OP quest and a keel design would make trailer launch and recovery somewhat awkward in most slips.

General:

Albin 25 is a motor model that was designed by Per Brohäll and was built between 1968 and 1978 by Albin Marin's factories in Kroksvik outside Kristinehamn, Sweden. It sold over 2500 copies in ten years. The model was first fitted with a Albin AD-21 engine at 22HP. But it had a bigger engine of 36 horsepower, in the late '70s in the form of a Volvo Penta MD 17C, which gives the boat a cruising speed of 6-7 knots.

It is 7.6 meters long (25 feet) and 2.60 wide with a depth of 70 cm.

 

[ontheplane]

That 80% rule I think was for unbraked trailers up to 750kg other than that you are limited by your licence. Ie after a certain date (think that was when the new photo licence came out) you are limited to 3500 gross

Could always buy mine boat 1500kg trailer 600kg 21' searay with cuddy cabin

Totally Wrong.

You are limited to the MAM of the towing vehicle and it's listed towing weight.

So, if the car has a listed towing weight of 1500kg and you are towing 1501kg you are instantly uninsured and on a possible "dangerous driving" or other prosecution if anything goes wrong.

If the MAM is 3500 and the car weighs 1500 and you have a towing weight of 1500 you have 500kg for fluids, fuel, people luggage etc.

Go over the MAM and you're in a world of trouble best avoided.

I would go with the previous advice - Shetlands, or similar are light boats and probably within your towing limit.

 

[rustybarge]

You could make a detachable rubbing strake to reduce the beam from 2.6 mtr to the 2.55 allowed, or even fit a narrower one.

.....you won't get many boats at 1 ton weight that are seaworthy.

1.7 tons includes the engine.

 

[Spi D]

Original manufacturer specs dated 1970 state 1600 kg without However 1600 or 1700 is not very relevant when talking a total of 1200-1500 kg boat & trailer and gear. The Albin would end up well over 2200 kg all incl.

 

[rustybarge]

Can't think offhand of a cabin cruiser that you can stand up in that weighs 1 ton.

All the open sea angling boats with a cuddy like the warrior will get in at this weight, but not a cabin cruiser.
Hardy pilot 21 with engine will be 1.25 t.
merry fishers about the same or more.

....maybe a bigger tow car?

 

[Spi D]

Along with the suggested Peche Promenade types, the Uttern 5750c might be interesting. 750 kg dry, recommended 75-90 hp

 

[CX54WEK]

Wow thats immaculate, such fun is frowned upon these days.

It's not bad.

It's been used as well 130k on the clock!

 

[Whitelighter]

Totally Wrong.

You are limited to the MAM of the towing vehicle and it's listed towing weight.

So, if the car has a listed towing weight of 1500kg and you are towing 1501kg you are instantly uninsured and on a possible "dangerous driving" or other prosecution if anything goes wrong.

If the MAM is 3500 and the car weighs 1500 and you have a towing weight of 1500 you have 500kg for fluids, fuel, people luggage etc.

Go over the MAM and you're in a world of trouble best avoided.

I would go with the previous advice - Shetlands, or similar are light boats and probably within your towing limit.

That's utter ****.

Of course, if you want to show me the legislation on the .gov website then I change my opinion.
There is no legal max weight apart from 3500kg (assuming you are not towing commercially).

The only thing that will have a 'plated weight' is the trailer and that must not be exceeded. Commercial vehicles again wi have a plated weight which must not be exceeded. Private vehicles do not have a plated weight.

I agree it's sensible for all sorts of reasons to stick to the recommended towing weight but it's not a legal requirement if under 3500kg. The width max is also a legal limit.

Think about it, if as you say going 1kg evokes all sorts of penalties then there should be weigh bridges all over the place so you can accurately weight everything. There isn't and the weigh bridges that there are are not generally accessible by the public.

Again, if you can show me the LEGISLATION then I will stand corrected but I have never been able to find anything.

 

[rustybarge]

That's utter ****.

Of course, if you want to show me the legislation on the .gov website then I change my opinion.
There is no legal max weight apart from 3500kg (assuming you are not towing commercially).

The only thing that will have a 'plated weight' is the trailer and that must not be exceeded. Commercial vehicles again wi have a plated weight which must not be exceeded. Private vehicles do not have a plated weight.

I agree it's sensible for all sorts of reasons to stick to the recommended towing weight but it's not a legal requirement if under 3500kg. The width max is also a legal limit.

Think about it, if as you say going 1kg evokes all sorts of penalties then there should be weigh bridges all over the place so you can accurately weight everything. There isn't and the weigh bridges that there are are not generally accessible by the public.

Again, if you can show me the LEGISLATION then I will stand corrected but I have never been able to find anything.

+1
This explains how a jeep with a low ratio box will have a higher recommended tow weight than an identical car with a standard gearbox; the clutch won't burn out on a slipway.

It's only a recommendation, not legal limit.

 

[ontheplane]

So are you saying you could legally tow a 3500kg trailer with a Skoda Fabia 1.2?

See here :- https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/car-towing-weight-and-width-limits

It doesn't say what the penalty is - however it clearly states that the cars gross train weight (now referred to as the MAM - Maximum allowed Mass) must not be exceeded.

For starters, you will be uninsured as you will be using the car outside it's Type Approval, so your insurance will be invalid. Straight away, you are then committing the offence of driving without insurance.

You could also be found to be in charge of an unsafe load, as by definition the manufacturer has said the car is not capable of towing that weight.

I will look elsewhere to find out any more - but to say any car can tow 3500kg is ridiculous.

 

[ontheplane]

Also see here from ntta

"Matching the Trailer with the Towing Vehicle

It is important that the vehicle you use to pull your trailer is adequate for the job
Check that the engine is large enough to tow the trailer and load.
Check that the brakes are powerful enough to stop the vehicle and trailer safely.
Check that the Trailer Gross Weight does not exceed the Towing Capacity of the Towing vehicle.
The addition of a loaded trailer to a vehicle will inevitably have a very serious effect on the vehicle's performance. Starting, particularly on hills, can be much more laboured; stopping can take longer distances; cornering and negotiating sharp bends requires extra care.
Consider all these things very carefully when choosing and loading (and towing) your trailer.
The paragraphs which follow, refer to the data that is relevant to your choice. See "The Law"
The most important check is the vehicle manufacturer's recommended towing limit, which should be in vehicle manufacturer's handbook and on the VIN plate on the chassis.
A good rule of thumb, for safety and stability, when towing a caravan, is the 85% figure recommended for caravans by the Caravan Club. This suggests that you should not tow a caravan that weighs more than 85% of the towing vehicle's kerb weight. (as long as 85% does not exceed the vehicle manufacturer's recommended towing limit. (The kerb weight is defined as the weight of the vehicle plus a full tank of petrol and 75kg (for the driver and luggage).)
Police Forces use the manufacturer's recommended towing limit as their guide. Under no circumstances should the vehicle's gross train weight be exceeded. You should also refer to limitations on overall length, details can be found in this guide that deal with trailer dimensions.

 

[ontheplane]

See also here also from the NTTA:-

"
Frequently Asked Questions

I am buying a horse trailer. How can I find out my car’s towing capacity? Every vehicle manufacturer has to give a maximum towing limit. This can be found in the vehicle handbook and also on the chassis plate, usually found under the bonnet. The information can be presented in a variety of ways. The clearest is when the plate gives the towing limits for both braked and unbraked trailers. Sometimes the car’s Gross Train Weight (GTW) is given. This is the combination of the car’s Maximum Permitted weight (MPW) sometimes called Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW) and the trailers Gross Trailer Weight. To get the towing limit simply deduct the MPW from the GTW. It is an offence to exceed the car’s towing limit."

I am trying now to find out what the offence specifically is...

 

[rustybarge]

Also see here from ntta

"Matching the Trailer with the Towing Vehicle

It is important that the vehicle you use to pull your trailer is adequate for the job
Check that the engine is large enough to tow the trailer and load.
Check that the brakes are powerful enough to stop the vehicle and trailer safely.
Check that the Trailer Gross Weight does not exceed the Towing Capacity of the Towing vehicle.
The addition of a loaded trailer to a vehicle will inevitably have a very serious effect on the vehicle's performance. Starting, particularly on hills, can be much more laboured; stopping can take longer distances; cornering and negotiating sharp bends requires extra care.
Consider all these things very carefully when choosing and loading (and towing) your trailer.
The paragraphs which follow, refer to the data that is relevant to your choice. See "The Law"
The most important check is the vehicle manufacturer's recommended towing limit, which should be in vehicle manufacturer's handbook and on the VIN plate on the chassis.
A good rule of thumb, for safety and stability, when towing a caravan, is the 85% figure recommended for caravans by the Caravan Club. This suggests that you should not tow a caravan that weighs more than 85% of the towing vehicle's kerb weight. (as long as 85% does not exceed the vehicle manufacturer's recommended towing limit. (The kerb weight is defined as the weight of the vehicle plus a full tank of petrol and 75kg (for the driver and luggage).)
Police Forces use the manufacturer's recommended towing limit as their guide. Under no circumstances should the vehicle's gross train weight be exceeded. You should also refer to limitations on overall length, details can be found in this guide that deal with trailer dimensions.

..recommended!

 

[ontheplane]

...... 1st Offence would be driving without insurance and potentially "knowingly invalidating your insurance by driving your vehicle on a public road otherwise than in accordance with it's designed parameters"

2nd Offence - Driving a vehicle on a public road otherwise than within its limits as prescribed by the manufacturers in relation to the Road Vehicles (construction and use) regulations 1986.

Also see page https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...1965/quick-guide-to-towing-small-trailers.pdf

This also clearly states that the Max Train weight must not be exceeded.

 

[ontheplane]

Correct - exceed it and the police will consider you are driving an unsafe combination.

Of course, if you don't have an accident and don't get pulled it's fine.....

Until something goes wrong....

 

[rustybarge]

Correct - exceed it and the police will consider you are driving an unsafe combination.

Of course, if you don't have an accident and don't get pulled it's fine.....

Until something goes wrong....

Example:
Manufacturer’s name chassis number
GVW/GVM 1695 GTW/GTM 2895 AXLE 1-0890 AXLE 2-0880
The first weight (1695) is the maximum weight of the vehicle on its own. The second weight (2895) is the maximum weight for the vehicle and any trailer that is attached. The third weight (890) is the maximum for the front axle of the vehicle and the final weight (880) is the maximum weight for the rear axle of the vehicle

so as already stated the car above does not have fixed legal trailer weight; with just one person in a 1 ton car you could tow a trailer of approx:1ton plus 100kg passenger =2895-1100kg ..... 1795kg trailer, or less with more people in the car etc....

 

[ontheplane]

Exactly - and there is absolutely no way it can legally tow 3500kg..... You have proven my point.

The car can tow a MAXIMUM of 1200kg but in practice, taking off some weight for a person, some fuel etc, the car's max towing weight is around 1000kg. The point is, that if you attach a trailer of 3500 to that car - the GTW will be well over 2895 and hence illegal.

If the manufacturer states a max trailer weight then it is the lower of that weight, or the GTW with the car laden as you choose to load it. Some manufactures set a lower recommended towing limit because the engine or transmission cannot take it - I am not sure if you exceed THIS weight if you would be committing an offence (but I suspect the insurance co would see it as an "out").

However break the MAM or GTW limit and you are committing an offence.

 

[ontheplane]

Along with the suggested Peche Promenade types, the Uttern 5750c might be interesting. 750 kg dry, recommended 75-90 hp

But where the heck would you find one of these? None for sale in UK as far as I can see

 

[rustybarge]

But where the heck would you find one of these? None for sale in UK as far as I can see

500kg without engine, standing headroom, rated best angling boat beating all the Merry fishers etc:http://www.fishing-boats.info/drago.htm

Won't win any Beauty contests. View attachment 43259

 

[landlockedpirate]

Just realised the Hardy 18, with a smaller 2 stroke might just squeek in under 1000kg on a trailer.