craw4d2003
Well-Known Member
Can anyone tell me the best way to receive weather data when crossing the atlantic, we do not have internet or satellite connections.
receiving weather information
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Do you have an SSB?
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
As Stingo said, via SSB or fit Inmarsat C (www.rme.com sells reconditined units). Don't forget you would need a Long Range Radio Certificate (with Satellite endorsement for Sat C) although there are advantages to getting a Ham licence instead. Another option is via satellite phone.
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Seem to remember that when I did an Atlantic crossing, some years ago, there was a North American called Herb whom our skipper called up on SSB. Herb runs some kind of amateur weather service. After waiting in a queue for our turn, he had to give Herb our position and received in return a "personalised" forecast". It cost nothing, presumably Herb does it from the kindness of his heart. Not sure of the details because when I wasn't sleeping or fixing the generating set, I was on deck enjoying the glorious sunshine.
Our skipper was somewhat in awe of Herb, who would dish out a very public bollocking if you weren't ready when your turn came up.
ps Do your crew a favour and use headphones with your ssb!
Our skipper was somewhat in awe of Herb, who would dish out a very public bollocking if you weren't ready when your turn came up.
ps Do your crew a favour and use headphones with your ssb!
charles_reed
Well-Known Member
You can get wefaxes via either an SSB (expensive and requires an additional licence) or a dedicated receiver.
To use that infor you'll need some basic meteo knowledge.
Easier to use and little different in price would be Inmarsat C (a recon unit would be the way to go).
Having said that you'll not get any simplistic forecasts like the one you've been getting for coastal sailing so you're really committed to boning up on met - after that your own local instruments will give you the most effective and accurate forecast, with longer range preview via 500mB and the sea-level wefaxes.
You could download grib files into a laptop for a computer simulation (MaxSea or others' software) or finally subscribe to a routing agency (who'd be the most accurate) via either SSB or satellite (which is Inmarsat C).
To use that infor you'll need some basic meteo knowledge.
Easier to use and little different in price would be Inmarsat C (a recon unit would be the way to go).
Having said that you'll not get any simplistic forecasts like the one you've been getting for coastal sailing so you're really committed to boning up on met - after that your own local instruments will give you the most effective and accurate forecast, with longer range preview via 500mB and the sea-level wefaxes.
You could download grib files into a laptop for a computer simulation (MaxSea or others' software) or finally subscribe to a routing agency (who'd be the most accurate) via either SSB or satellite (which is Inmarsat C).
AndrewB
Well-Known Member
On the outward bound route from Europe I have relied on Radio France Inter's Atlantic forecasts, broadcast at 1140 GMT daily. In French, but spoken fairly slowly. The style is just like Met Office shipping forecasts so easy to follow. The radio frequencies and sea areas are given in Reeds Almanac (from memory 15300 KHz is good).
For the return trip its possible to listen to Herb even if you don't have an SSB transceiver. His frequency is 12359 KHz, starts at 1945 daily. There will probably be a yacht close enough to you that is speaking to Herb, for you to use their forecast. An alternative, less user-friendly, is CAMSLANT, the US Coastguard Atlantic weather service.
You will of course need a good quality short wave radio receiver for this, with SSB reception for Herb.
For the return trip its possible to listen to Herb even if you don't have an SSB transceiver. His frequency is 12359 KHz, starts at 1945 daily. There will probably be a yacht close enough to you that is speaking to Herb, for you to use their forecast. An alternative, less user-friendly, is CAMSLANT, the US Coastguard Atlantic weather service.
You will of course need a good quality short wave radio receiver for this, with SSB reception for Herb.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
In fact the SatC forecasts are very simple, wind speed, direction and weather, by sea area. It's a great piece of kit and the weather is free. The only hiccup comes when you are half way across and the system switches to Atlantic Region West satellite, run by the Americans. The whole of the western Atlantic and Caribbean are covered in one area. You have to plough through it to find what you want. Also they only forecast winds of twenty knots or over so if you are in an area <20 you get no info - on the other hand the wind will usually be between SE and NE so it doesn't really matter and at least you know there is nothing nasty around.
We also used Herb and his service is incredible - but don't ignore his instructions or he'll shout at you and may even refuse to talk to you. Notionally his services are free but a small donation in Canadian Dollars is much apprecited by Herb and is considered the norm by cruising folks.
We also used Herb and his service is incredible - but don't ignore his instructions or he'll shout at you and may even refuse to talk to you. Notionally his services are free but a small donation in Canadian Dollars is much apprecited by Herb and is considered the norm by cruising folks.
Talbot
Well-Known Member
From your post I suspect that you are looking to do this as cheaply as possible rather than the optimum way.
Cheapest is to get a HF receiver (e.g. nasa) and download the weatherfaxes, and tlearn how to interpret them. It will also give you access to listen to herb and the SSB social net (but not join in. It is cheap and needs no licence, but given a bit more money, there are better options.
an SSB enables you to correspond with Herb (probably the best way)
an iridium will provide better download than the SSB, but more expensive running costs
inmarsat will give you anything you want, if you happen to own a gold mine.
Cheapest is to get a HF receiver (e.g. nasa) and download the weatherfaxes, and tlearn how to interpret them. It will also give you access to listen to herb and the SSB social net (but not join in. It is cheap and needs no licence, but given a bit more money, there are better options.
an SSB enables you to correspond with Herb (probably the best way)
an iridium will provide better download than the SSB, but more expensive running costs
inmarsat will give you anything you want, if you happen to own a gold mine.
KellysEye
Well-Known Member
Agree with Talbot. It's also worth noting that people arriving in the Caribbean have sailed enough to get a fair view of what kit is needed and what isn't. Those on an Atlantic circuit or those becoming 'snowbirds' (leave the boat and go home for six months per annum) fit nothing new. The long term cruisers fit a windvane, SSB transceiver and watermaker, if they don't already have those items.
Reasons are:
- SSB is the lifeblood of the cruising community.
- Autopilots break, it's only a matter of time, hand steering when short handed is a 'killer'.
- Watermakers give freedom (to stay away from Marinas).
Reasons are:
- SSB is the lifeblood of the cruising community.
- Autopilots break, it's only a matter of time, hand steering when short handed is a 'killer'.
- Watermakers give freedom (to stay away from Marinas).
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Herb's website is:-
http://www3.sympatico.ca/hehilgen/vax498.htm
http://www3.sympatico.ca/hehilgen/vax498.htm
philmarks
Well-Known Member
I found the radio France forecasts excellent, also used Nasa Target to download Wefax. Final and most useful was calling my Dad up every couple of days on satphone (Inmarsat mini M £250 on EBay), he read me the GMDSS text, either from France or from Brazil navy websites, depending on where I was (Canaries to Rio and back to UK via Azores).
I don't have SSB Tx therefore I didn't miss it....
I received many 500mb wefaxes, can anyone point me to where I might find an explanation of their interpretation?
I don't have SSB Tx therefore I didn't miss it....
I received many 500mb wefaxes, can anyone point me to where I might find an explanation of their interpretation?
Talbot
Well-Known Member
One of the best sources for information about the weather, and the best links to all the data that is available is http://www.franksingleton.clara.net/beginning.html
TigaWave
Well-Known Member
West to East, there isn't much forecasting to be done, just leave at the right time of year. Then watch out behind for localised squalls.
Coming back I've found that a simple ssb receiver plugged into laptop with Mscan software and I could get good weatherfaxes any where, and also listen in to the nets with people reporting their plocal weather. Useful on the way back.
When you stop somewhere there are always places to get a range of weather forecasts, so you only need your own for the longer passages and then only those passages where low pressure routes can come down and meet you.
On a long passage you can't turn back after 2 weeks, you can't outrun a fast moving system, so you end up reading the weather and preparing. I've done one crossing with no weather system and just looked at the sky and it's surprising how much you notice when thats the only thing that changes.
Coming back I've found that a simple ssb receiver plugged into laptop with Mscan software and I could get good weatherfaxes any where, and also listen in to the nets with people reporting their plocal weather. Useful on the way back.
When you stop somewhere there are always places to get a range of weather forecasts, so you only need your own for the longer passages and then only those passages where low pressure routes can come down and meet you.
On a long passage you can't turn back after 2 weeks, you can't outrun a fast moving system, so you end up reading the weather and preparing. I've done one crossing with no weather system and just looked at the sky and it's surprising how much you notice when thats the only thing that changes.
G
Guest
Guest
The weather in the Atlantic is not all benign. It is a compromise of latitude and time of departure. Although it is the safest Ocean crossing in the world in our opinion.
There is this fictitious date past which everything is OK. But that is not the case. Ask the poor bloke that had his boat destroyed one morning then had a heart attach the next day due to the stress.
Firstly there is a tendency at the popular time of the year for a low pressure to be static or slow moving in the middle of the Atlantic. Some years they are the remnants of hurricanes still around after a few weeks. This gives an area of SWlies for those that are too high. i.e direct line from Canaries to Barbados.
There can also be fronts which can be quite severe if heading to the Northern Caribbean.
The sources of weather are the weather faxes, and if you can afford a receiver; NOAA weather satellites direct from above. If you can afford satellite internet then that works as well but the cost is only valid to us in emergencies. Knew a cook once that did not know the implications and got to $5000 dollars before the owner spotted him surfing the web.
However for us, SSB is the best way to find out what is ahead. Just listen to the nets. Private and organized ones. They are easy to find. But note there can be a factor of 2 between peoples wind and wave height reports. You need to keep listening and record who are the reliable ones. Just listening on the day of a problem is the best way to scare yourself.
Our friends were less than 25 miles from a boat in a storm that lasted days. They on the other hand were having a good brisk sail. We still talk about those reports. The boat, that thought they were in a storm, had a broken autopilot, so we only heard from the person that was not on the wheel. They must both have been using the same wind instruments but they both reported different wind speeds.
Some forms of weather are produced on a grid system. Some of the grids are about 120miles between points. A normal weather front or tropical disturbance is much smaller in width and will not show up on the wind arrows. Take care that these are only showing the major flows and not the individual events. They also do not give enough detail to find the centre of the ridge south of a low pressure which marks the trade wind vs. SWlies changeover. Some are a very poor average of the wind over the grid.
In the end there are some experienced sailors that have done it many times and in general they should be listened to but not followed blindly!
There is this fictitious date past which everything is OK. But that is not the case. Ask the poor bloke that had his boat destroyed one morning then had a heart attach the next day due to the stress.
Firstly there is a tendency at the popular time of the year for a low pressure to be static or slow moving in the middle of the Atlantic. Some years they are the remnants of hurricanes still around after a few weeks. This gives an area of SWlies for those that are too high. i.e direct line from Canaries to Barbados.
There can also be fronts which can be quite severe if heading to the Northern Caribbean.
The sources of weather are the weather faxes, and if you can afford a receiver; NOAA weather satellites direct from above. If you can afford satellite internet then that works as well but the cost is only valid to us in emergencies. Knew a cook once that did not know the implications and got to $5000 dollars before the owner spotted him surfing the web.
However for us, SSB is the best way to find out what is ahead. Just listen to the nets. Private and organized ones. They are easy to find. But note there can be a factor of 2 between peoples wind and wave height reports. You need to keep listening and record who are the reliable ones. Just listening on the day of a problem is the best way to scare yourself.
Our friends were less than 25 miles from a boat in a storm that lasted days. They on the other hand were having a good brisk sail. We still talk about those reports. The boat, that thought they were in a storm, had a broken autopilot, so we only heard from the person that was not on the wheel. They must both have been using the same wind instruments but they both reported different wind speeds.
Some forms of weather are produced on a grid system. Some of the grids are about 120miles between points. A normal weather front or tropical disturbance is much smaller in width and will not show up on the wind arrows. Take care that these are only showing the major flows and not the individual events. They also do not give enough detail to find the centre of the ridge south of a low pressure which marks the trade wind vs. SWlies changeover. Some are a very poor average of the wind over the grid.
In the end there are some experienced sailors that have done it many times and in general they should be listened to but not followed blindly!
AndrewB
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
... you can't outrun a fast moving system, so you end up reading the weather and preparing. I've done one crossing with no weather system and just looked at the sky and it's surprising how much you notice when thats the only thing that changes.
[/ QUOTE ]I agree to some extent with this. It isn't possible to outrun major north Atlantic weather systems, nor predict where they will be at their worst, and I think Herb does sometimes waste people's time in urging them to move one way or the other.
But there are two reasons why this advice is wrong. First, unlike north Atlantic depressions, tropical storms and hurricanes are relatively small systems, the forecast information about them is excellent, giving a yacht a good chance of getting out of the way in time. Atlantic tropical storms are occuring during an increasingly wide period of the year (many ARC boats were affected by TS Delta last year), so even in the 'safe' season it is helpful to keep informed.
Second, even if you can't keep out of the path of a weather system, the more notice you have, the better prepared you will be, both psychologicaly and with practical matters - gaining more offing, for instance. An observer may have only a few hours warning from cloud signs of weather that has been forecast a day or two ahead. And during bad weather, the forecast provides valuable information as to its likely severity and duration, which also is psychologically valuable.
... you can't outrun a fast moving system, so you end up reading the weather and preparing. I've done one crossing with no weather system and just looked at the sky and it's surprising how much you notice when thats the only thing that changes.
[/ QUOTE ]I agree to some extent with this. It isn't possible to outrun major north Atlantic weather systems, nor predict where they will be at their worst, and I think Herb does sometimes waste people's time in urging them to move one way or the other.
But there are two reasons why this advice is wrong. First, unlike north Atlantic depressions, tropical storms and hurricanes are relatively small systems, the forecast information about them is excellent, giving a yacht a good chance of getting out of the way in time. Atlantic tropical storms are occuring during an increasingly wide period of the year (many ARC boats were affected by TS Delta last year), so even in the 'safe' season it is helpful to keep informed.
Second, even if you can't keep out of the path of a weather system, the more notice you have, the better prepared you will be, both psychologicaly and with practical matters - gaining more offing, for instance. An observer may have only a few hours warning from cloud signs of weather that has been forecast a day or two ahead. And during bad weather, the forecast provides valuable information as to its likely severity and duration, which also is psychologically valuable.
