real life experience of wind generators?

wotayottie

wotayottie

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I have to make some decisions about extra generating capacity and am contemplating a windmill on the stern of the boat. I would be interested in reports on the performance of the various designs particularly from people who can put some numbers to the typical level or power generated in the UK.

Noise is also an issue. Whic is the quietest and how is the best way to mount one to minimise noise transfer
 
wotayottie said:
Noise is also an issue. Whic is the quietest and how is the best way to mount one to minimise noise transfer
Click to expand...

I don't have a wind generator, but my experience of marinas seems to suggest that Rutland models are very quiet. I've noticed that a number of pole mounts have rubber-isolated fixings where the pole and braces meet the boat, so that might help to minimise vibration noise in the boat.
 
I suggest you take a walk around a marina on a windy day and see what mills are burning and turning. In my experience the Rutland 913s will be quietly spinning without any noticeable vibration. The Ampairs and Aerogens will be slower to start up and quicker to stop when the wind fluctuates. The large American types will be usually be tied off. Any of these Wind Buggers (I think that is actually the name rather than my political incorrectness) that are not tied off will be either stationary - not enough wind - or else making an abominable shrieking noise. No way would I put up with the screech they make!
I fitted a Rutland several years ago and it has transformed my winter cruising. Previously after a few days running vhf, radar, lights, plotter, fridge etc I would have to run the engine every day or two. Since fitting the mill I have never had the slightest worry about battery drain. I think the larger of the two Aerogens or the Ampair work just as well -the larger flywheel on the Rutland swayed me. I have no experience of the Duogen type that you can drag in the water as a water turbine but no way would I drag anything else in the water - Pleiades has enough wetted area already! I also fitted the excellent Rutland charge controller and hooked up a small solar panel - I think a mill by itself does not provide sufficient continuity of charge. As regards mounting - I know some people go to elaborate lengths making rubber mounts etc. I just plonked mine on the teak deck and can't see how it could vibrate any less. It does however have to be mounted on something solid so that resonance cannot build up - a flimsy awb might merit a rubber mount. Mine runs year in year out come what wind may. On passage however you should tie them off early if a gale is forecast - I sailed through a gale with mine and it acquired a bit of a wobble on the axis from the ordeal so a little bit rumblier now but still easily quiet enough to forget it is there. The numbers are relatively easy to work out - add up what you are taking out and see if the quoted output for the mill of your choice will exceed that but as average wind speeds vary greatly depending on location and whether you are in a sheltered marina or out on an exposed anchorage don't expect the numbers to give anything other than a very rough guide. To conclude - returning to the boat after a few weeks away to find the batteries fully charged is great - charging the batteries for free as you thrash along under sail is even better.
 
Ampair quiet but low output newer models supposed to be better I had an early 90s one which worked for 7 years continious use without any rebuild or major repair was used in water mode approx 10% of time.

Air Marine Noisy good output I avoid anchoring close to them if possible.

Kiss [Trinidad] quiet and good output. If I was buying one this would be it.

Both Rutland and Aerogens seem to need fairly regular rebuilds as do the old model Windbuggers. I am sure that some work for long periods of time but you do see non functioning ones and hear of people looking for spares.

Most of my experience is garnered in the Caribbean so may ot be relevent but wind is wind regardless of what country you are in.
 
My comment from the last time this came up:

"My small Aerogen is working as we speak, as it had done, almost without a break for the last twenty years. Outstanding. The rotor bearings are still perfect but I have fitted two lots of vertical shaft bearings.
The output is good for topping up my main battery on a swinging mooring but will struggle in a marina.
It is silent in operation in all sensible wind conditions, and I have always found the company helpful when contacted. "

I broke a blade, bringing the dinghy aboard, about 8 years ago so treated it to a new set. They were very cheap but I understand they now cost more.
I have it mounted on a short pole on the pulpit with a simple rubber pad for insulation. This works fine on my swinging mooring and, as I never use it at sea, it is safe enough.
If it packed in I would buy a similar thing from the same company.
Any kit that makes a row is not worth fitting, in my view.
 
We have had both an Aerogen 4 and an Aerogen 6 on our last two boats. We were on a mooring initially when we had the Aerogen 4 and it was very good at recharging whilst we were away ready for our return the next week to full batteries. The Aerogen 6 was on our last boat but in a marina was only used when away more than a few days (battery capacity covered weekends no problem) but even then rarely was called into use as we had solar panels. We had a fixed 75W solar panel on a gantry and another 120W one we put on deck if at anchor long periods. For summer season use the solar panels were excellent. The thing about wind generators is they need wind, obvious I know, but we would chose an anchorage mostly sheltered from it. The Aerogens were quiet enough to live with, even in the cabin below their mounting. The outputs were pretty well as stated by the maker BUT they had a tendency to 'hunt' around and lose the wind, stop and restart which would drop the output and lower the total average charge below what you might expect, all windies do that I have observed. The Rutland ones start up in lighter winds than others but it means zilch because they still need the same windspeed to actually charge as the others.

My choice would be solar first always, then Aerogen or Ampair or Rutland but never Aerex as the noise is unbearable to anyone within 100m radius!
 
We've got the Rutland 913. Unless it's blowing an absolute hooly, it's really very very quiet. And when it's blowing a hooly, it's noisy anyway due to the wind.

We don't get a vast amount of power out of it unless the wind is pretty strong. In a gale it gives about 8-10 amps though.

Having said that, I wouldn't be without it. Whenever we've been away from the boat for any length of time, our bank of 4 batteries is always fully charged on our return. And a good overnight blow sees them well topped up.

my GF and I both work on the internet from the boat so we have a fridge and one or two laptops on most of the time during the day. Draws about 10 amps total. In near gale the Rutland is powering the lot. Less than gale we definitely have to spend less time with the petrol generator running.

Our Rutland is I think about 5 years old and the bearing is just starting to make a little noise so will probably need replacing some time soonish.

It does make a hum below when generating - but it's not obtrusive and serves as a pleasant reminder that we're getting free power.

Have walked past a number of other models in marinas and felt glad we'd got a Rutland - the others on the whole seem so so noisy - I'd be too concerned of upsetting the neighbours to run one.
 
Another vote for 913 but get a controller and wire in some solar as well - I have 40 watts giving max 2.7 amps and between them I get plenty of power but I don't run a fridge, get by quite happily without one in UK. As others have said don't expect to get tons of power from the 913 can't speak for the other ones - most I've had from mine is about 4 amps but that's a max definitely not an average. Also be careful to think about the mounting to minimise resonance through the hull. If I was to choose one I'd go for solar - it's quieter and cheaper, but I love having both available...
 
Pleiades said:
I suggest you take a walk around a marina on a windy day and see what mills are burning and turning. In my experience the Rutland 913s will be quietly spinning without any noticeable vibration. The Ampairs and Aerogens will be slower to start up and quicker to stop when the wind fluctuates. The large American types will be usually be tied off. Any of these Wind Buggers (I think that is actually the name rather than my political incorrectness) that are not tied off will be either stationary - not enough wind - or else making an abominable shrieking noise. No way would I put up with the screech they make!

I will second the comment about the screeching of whichever make it is. They've started to appear on the otherwise lovely Beaulieu River on large yachts which nobody ever seems to use and are absolute abomination.
Click to expand...
 
I had a Rutland 500 that gave me nothing but problems and had negligible output. Waste of my time and money. The only good thing about it was the enclosed vanes.

I've now had an Aerogen 4 running constantly for the last couple of years and am very pleased with it. My batteries are always fully charged, and the only noise worth noting is the slight buzz from the dump resistor.


Alisdair
 
We have a Superwind 350 with the new quieter blades. (The old style blades were ok for noise, but the new ones are very very quiet.) It produces over 10 amps lots of the time and officially it can produce 28 amps in 23 knots of wind. A shunt regulator sorts out the over speed and any over generation and it has electronic stop on it that shuts it down if we don't want any wind generated power at all.

We have been very happy with it and our batteries are toppers the whole time - although the original cost was a bit eye-watering.
 
After a lot of research which included going round marinas and listening (as others have suggested) I went for the Rutland 913. YM did a review where they also came out quietest. This was above decks though......

Resonance and the mounting position play a huge role. I suffered terrible noise in the aft cabin at specific wind speeds (just after the 'charging' startup point).

First the pole and stays were isolated on neoprene/cork isolation mounts. Noise reduced by a reasonable amount, but still too noisy for night use. I fitted a couple of shaft anodes to the main pole at strategic points which damped out some additional resonance. With the generator only 2 years old, Marlec kindly changed the bearings which were rumbling. Still resonance/vibration.

Inserted a plastic conduit into the pole and filled the pole with builders foam, injecting it at 18" intervals. Pole resonance now seems fixed, but vibration is being transmitted down the pole.

Hung a small coil of rope on the tail fin last weekend in desperation and all noise ceased except for a normal hum. It seems that some resonance/vibration was present in the main unit. I have just cast a lead disc which I intend to clamp on the tail fin of the 913 over the next week or two and hopefully the generator can now run at night.

Resonance and vibration are two different things and it was easy to mistake one for the other at times. If it is resonance, it likely to be at the same frequency independant of the wind speed.

Do I regret the purchase? Not in any way except for the time in isolating the noise. Each boat/mounting is likely to be different. Marlec have also been very helpful.

If you go round the marina, rather than listening, ask other owners about the below deck noise and most will admit to shutting their generator down at night ( not just Rutland owners). The new charge controler from Marlec does have a shut off switch so the blades just slowly rotate. There are dire warnings in the manual about stopping the blades as they should be left turning to a degree to prevent water ingress.
 
I've had an Aero4gen for 10 years. Replaced the main drive bearings last season as it had started to "knock" a little. Absolutely fine now. Quiet and does the job.
 
TQA said:
Both Rutland and Aerogens seem to need fairly regular rebuilds
Click to expand...

I would dispute that the Rutland 913 needs fairly regular rebuilds.
Mine 24v 913 has been spinning for 9 years, it is quiet and keeps 5 batteries topped up (2 x 110 ah for 24v bank, 2 x 70 ah for one 12v bank and a 110 ah for the other 12v bank).
The only problem that I have had was when a rectifier diode blew.
As for vibration, I mounted it on the mizzen with an L bracket and used some car tyre inner tube as vibration dampers, I sleep in the aft cabin and get no vibration noise.
 
I think that the older Rutlands seem to be better... though my 503 was ****... I know of another forumite whose bearings lasted 2 season on his 913... my 503 was crapped out after 2 seasons... and the replacment 504 is making noise after 6 months...

The only reason I have replaced the 503 with the 504 was that it was cheap and filled the pole until I can get something that actually generates usefull power. It generates no power that I can see.. certainly not enough to get any amps into the domestic battery..
 
photodog said:
I think that the older Rutlands seem to be better... though my 503 was ****... I know of another forumite whose bearings lasted 2 season on his 913... my 503 was crapped out after 2 seasons... and the replacment 504 is making noise after 6 months...

The only reason I have replaced the 503 with the 504 was that it was cheap and filled the pole until I can get something that actually generates usefull power. It generates no power that I can see.. certainly not enough to get any amps into the domestic battery..
Click to expand...

My 500 was back to the factory for replacement bearings in its first year, the replacements didn't last much longer and that was taking it down over the winter.

Alisdair
 
photodog said:
I think that the older Rutlands seem to be better... though my 503 was ****... I know of another forumite whose bearings lasted 2 season on his 913... my 503 was crapped out after 2 seasons... and the replacment 504 is making noise after 6 months...

The only reason I have replaced the 503 with the 504 was that it was cheap and filled the pole until I can get something that actually generates usefull power. It generates no power that I can see.. certainly not enough to get any amps into the domestic battery..
Click to expand...

i think there maybe quite a few people running these with bad output.....i was until recently...but you need to check it is working, speak to Marlec, they are great and will send you a troubleshotting PDF, needs some multimeter work, but helped me fix mine.

I would say that if you are not getting something like the output on the graph it needs looking at, you aren't expecting it to do more than the datasheet right?

Mine fell into the cr*p category, till I fixed it, now it does what it should, which is just what i need.
 
Q........Pleiades has enough wetted area already! I also fitted the excellent Rutland charge controller and hooked up a small solar panel - I think a mill by itself does not provide sufficient continuity of charge. .....end Q.

Hi, I have a Rutland 913 with controller and it is definatly a great piece of kit, sensibly priced and quieter than many.
What type of 'small solar panel' did you use and would you recommend it?
What would others suggest please?
I have a space about 20"x16" or 500X400mm to use, which is likely to be stood on, which I'm considering using.
ta
S.
 
real life experience of windmills

Hi Scotty,
Pleiades has a Unisolar FLX 11 sat on top of the main hatch cover.
Dawn096.jpg

I chose this make because the boom casts a nearly permanent shadow across the hatch cover so it was essential to get a shadow-tolerant type. The Uni Solar 11 is ideal for size - it also had to be flexible as my hatch top has a curve to it. It occasionally gets knee'd by myself when tying off reef points but I would not recommend standing on any solar panels. Seems to be very robust after several years use. Output is rated at about 26 amp hours per week or 4 amp hours per day, - not much but always on even on quite grey days. 10 Watts power. A fit and forget job - highly recommended. It is interesting to see how much more power the pannel is putting in to the batteries than the windmill when the wind is light. (The HRDx controller lets you check each input.)

Fair winds and tides

Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5
 
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