Real Differences Between Mass Produced and Quality Yachts

birdseye said:
Are you really trying to tell us that the average yottie with a choice between an HR and a Bav would not have more pride of ownership with the HR? Sure it might be irrational. It might be prejudice / snobbery if you want. But its real all the same.
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Not trying to tell you anything - even though you seem to regularly try to tell others what to think. You said that people cannot have pride in ownership of an AWB. That is just nonsense.

Pride of ownership is a personal, internalised concept which the individual can attach to anything he chooses to own - irrespective of what others may think.

All your statement does, as others have commented, is exhibit snobbery.
 
GrahamM376 said:
According to Wiki and other links -

Archimedes' principle indicates that the upward buoyant force that is exerted on a body immersed in a fluid, whether fully or partially submerged, is equal to the weight of the fluid that the body displaces.
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Yes - that's correct.
 
The price of an second hand HR I believe has risen as a result of 2008. HR are making less boats supply and demand.
 
Jamesuk said:
The price of an second hand HR I believe has risen as a result of 2008. HR are making less boats supply and demand.
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Well glad to see my OP has got everyone going!!

I am concerned that in 10 years when i want to buy a cruising boat so few quality boats will have been manufactured in the previous 15 years that there will be very little choice. I think this effect is already starting if you browse for boats between 5 and 7 years old, there isnt much.
 
roblpm said:
I am concerned that in 10 years when i want to buy a cruising boat so few quality boats will have been manufactured in the previous 15 years that there will be very little choice. I think this effect is already starting if you browse for boats between 5 and 7 years old, there isnt much.
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More likely to be the result of people hanging on to their boats rather than take the huge hit of replacing it with a new one! I was happy to keep my HR - for 19 years - until I reckoned it was about 2 years away from a £30K teak deck replacement.
 
Jamesuk said:
The price of an second hand HR I believe has risen as a result of 2008. HR are making less boats supply and demand.
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More complex than that. Inflation of costs of building boats has been far greater than general inflation and the currencies in the consumer markets (particularly UK) have weakened compared to the Krona. So the demand for new boats (of nearly all types) has shrunk. As pvb says, people who own such boats are reluctant to sell because they cannot afford to pay the price of a new one. Therefore the price of recent new boats in particular has held up very well. However the price of 20+ year old boats has fallen because of the high cost of repairs and maintenance. There have been examples of 20 year old well used HRs selling at a price that justifies complete rebuilding to new standards for less than the cost of a new boat.
 
pvb said:
More likely to be the result of people hanging on to their boats rather than take the huge hit of replacing it with a new one! I was happy to keep my HR - for 19 years - until I reckoned it was about 2 years away from a £30K teak deck replacement.
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The teak deck of my 34 year old HR is long overdue for replacement but it ain't going to get replaced - not even with fake teak. Instead it will all get ripped off, screw-holes epoxied and ground down then all painted with KiwiGrip. I shall then have a lot of weight removed from where it shouldn't be on stability grounds, a cooler cabin in the baking Med summer with a deck I can walk on barefoot and all for an affordable cost.

A friend a few marina berths away did this with his HR Monsun and when he recently died his widow had no problem selling. No one could try to beat the price down with the cost of deck replacement. None of the potential buyers commented on the lack of a teak deck; it had been well done and looked perfectly normal.
 
Barnac1e said:
The teak deck of my 34 year old HR is long overdue for replacement but it ain't going to get replaced - not even with fake teak. Instead it will all get ripped off, screw-holes epoxied and ground down then all painted with KiwiGrip. I shall then have a lot of weight removed from where it shouldn't be on stability grounds, a cooler cabin in the baking Med summer with a deck I can walk on barefoot and all for an affordable cost.

A friend a few marina berths away did this with his HR Monsun and when he recently died his widow had no problem selling. No one could try to beat the price down with the cost of deck replacement. None of the potential buyers commented on the lack of a teak deck; it had been well done and looked perfectly normal.
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I suppose the ultimate in illogical bling is an AWB with a teak deck!!!:ambivalence:
 
nickf said:
Sorry that is not correct.
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You are absolutely right. My fault for altering the wooly definition that I found in wiki. In my original " Any object, wholly or partially immersed in a fluid, displaces a weight of fluid equal to its own weight." remove the "wholly" bit. The point I tried to make remains valid - the displacement of a boat is its weight.

Embarrassing! I did a physics degree. :o
 
Tranona said:
There have been examples of 20 year old well used HRs selling at a price that justifies complete rebuilding to new standards for less than the cost of a new boat.
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I dont see how you can ever do this - rebuild to new standards that is. People assume that some components - masts for example - never age but thats not true. Every part of a boat ages and deteriorates.
 
pvb said:
Prices may be close to the original list price of a bare boat, but almost every boat you see will have had an eye-watering list of options added which will have raised the purchase price considerably. By the time you've added a battery charger, autopilot, wind instruments, depth sounder, log, radar, plotter, VHF radio telephone & antenna, refrigerator, radar reflector, etc, etc, the new price will be much higher.
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That applies to every boat. The extras might sway your decision between two competing boats but I dont reckon you ever get back the money you have spent on extras. Certainly I never have done so.

Tranona said:
Not trying to tell you anything - even though you seem to regularly try to tell others what to think. You said that people cannot have pride in ownership of an AWB. That is just nonsense.

Pride of ownership is a personal, internalised concept which the individual can attach to anything he chooses to own - irrespective of what others may think.

All your statement does, as others have commented, is exhibit snobbery.
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Pots and kettles!

But your comments are simply unwordly and unreal. In a world where people aspire to own Rolex watches, Bentley car, Oyster yachts, the villa in Antibes, the Lear Jet etc, you dismiss it as all snobbery. But it really doesnt matter what you label it - the reality is seen in resale prices. Money talks and it makes more sense than you do.
 
birdseye said:
You are absolutely right. My fault for altering the wooly definition that I found in wiki. In my original " Any object, wholly or partially immersed in a fluid, displaces a weight of fluid equal to its own weight." remove the "wholly" bit. The point I tried to make remains valid - the displacement of a boat is its weight.
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A pedant writes ...

Even without the "wholly or" it's not right. Correction left as an exercise for the reader.
 
birdseye said:
In a world where people aspire to own Rolex watches, Bentley car, Oyster yachts, the villa in Antibes, the Lear Jet etc, you dismiss it as all snobbery.

Money talks and it makes more sense than you do.
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It seems you crave for what separates men rather than what unites them. Is that not the very antithesis of sailing?
 
Amazing how this type of thread pops up time and time again and a number jump on it to restate their prejudices.

I say prejudices as there is little rational arguments other than the sensible comparison with car makes. Both cheaper and very expensive cars/boats gets you there some have better quality construction/fittings otherwise its a snobbery/superiority thing ruling the decision of what to buy.

Realistically its all relative. If I had £100m in the bank I would probably buy an Oyster/HR/Malo instead of a Jeanneau but after looking at my bank account I decided the right balance was a new Jeanneau 43 DS and I am very happy with it. Would I be happier with a 67' Oyster - I doubt it - but if I could easily afford one I would probably buy one!!
 
birdseye said:
But your comments are simply unwordly and unreal. In a world where people aspire to own Rolex watches, Bentley car, Oyster yachts, the villa in Antibes, the Lear Jet etc, you dismiss it as all snobbery. But it really doesnt matter what you label it - the reality is seen in resale prices. Money talks and it makes more sense than you do.
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Much depends on the individuals values. I've had my share of BMWs, RangeRovers etc because I liked them, not because that was what I wanted to be seen in. I now drive a couple of aged Focus estates, one here and one in the UK which doesn't bother me in the least, I spend more time afloat than on the roads. Same applies to boats, I could go out and buy something "better" than we now have but, why? The boat is adequate for what we do, isn't likely to depreciate a lot further and I don't want the higher costs associated with much bigger boats.

I detest the people who have to "keep up with the Jones'" and constantly witter on about how much their latest purchase cost. My personal experience has been having to scratch and save and DIY was much more satisfying than when I was a higher rate tax payer and could just go out and buy (within reason) what I wanted.
 
birdseye said:
I dont see how you can ever do this - rebuild to new standards that is. People assume that some components - masts for example - never age but thats not true. Every part of a boat ages and deteriorates.
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There was a series of articles in Yachting World last year describing the process. Find it, read it and make up your own mind.
 
birdseye said:
But your comments are simply unwordly and unreal. In a world where people aspire to own Rolex watches, Bentley car, Oyster yachts, the villa in Antibes, the Lear Jet etc, you dismiss it as all snobbery. But it really doesnt matter what you label it - the reality is seen in resale prices. Money talks and it makes more sense than you do.
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No. I, like many people have no ambition to buy any of those things, but can appreciate why some do. Think it is you that has bought the idea that everything is about money.

That is nothing to do with "pride of ownership" - just about snobbery that spending more money better. And what is all this about resale prices being related to pride of ownership? Have a look at the resale prices of "desirable" (by your definition) things such as Maseratis, big BMWs, Mercs, Jaguars etc that plummet as soon as the original buyer gets tired of them and moves onto another "must have".
 
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