Real Differences Between Mass Produced and Quality Yachts

doug748 said:
"I might be able to afford a marine mortgage of 100k over 10 years but no way 300k."




Your plight rends the heart.
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I don't really get your point. I never said it was a real problem. Everyone else has debated the differences in boats that cost 100k vs 350k new.

There are boats available for every budget. Somebody on low wages can afford to buy and run a wayfarer if they are dedicated to it. My father ran a boat on a budget of about £250 a year.

I think coming on a sailing forum to make a point about the capitalist society we live in is a bit odd. As it happens I vote green and indirectly support about 10 people in Nepal.

I don't pay extra tax to the government as actually if you try they send it back!!

So sarky comments about my retirement planning are out of place I think.
 
doug748 said:
It was indeed.

But I must admit, I would consider spending less on the boat and more on the trip.
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Okeydoky. Good point. I dream about an expensive boat when actually the better thing to do is buy a lower cost seaworthy boat and actually go!!
 
roblpm said:
Okeydoky. Good point. I dream about an expensive boat when actually the better thing to do is buy a lower cost seaworthy boat and actually go!!
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Well I admit it, I am a cheapskate. Personally I would hate to buy a newish boat and then take it on a punishing trip, spending too much time worrying about scratching it, plus the added expense of insuring it. A dreamship might actually detract from your enjoyment. Regardless of depreciation figures, the less money you have on the table the less your exposure.

To respond to your original question I think Elan generally do lead keels, in pursuit of speed rather than cruising comfort perhaps. The 34 might be worth thinking about, a sprightly performer though, for your plans.
 
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Daydream believer said:
No reflection on you because I see this comment written regularly about the AWB
But can anybody actually prove that the charter market is bigger than the private market or is it a myth
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You should get Puff to ask his friends:

"Two friends that I have here are the local agents for Bennies and for Bavs (separately, of course). Both have sold loads of boats.
 
Amusing to read all the musings about depreciation, opportunity cost etc.

We should all face the fact that a boat is a depreciating luxury and, however much you strain at the gnat, in real terms they will all cost you money.

As an AWB gets people afloat, has a fairly small capital cost, it does it's job.
One has to suffer from a particularly constricted view to aver that an AWB owner has no pride of ownership - though I do know of one HR owner who called off a French trip due to fear of getting oil on his boat; which might be considered as taking such pride too far.

As to these obscure arguments about the relative weight of hulls - the use of aramids and carbon fibre as well as Corex composite lay-up are a recognised way of having a light, strong boat - I own examples of both.

I write as the owner of a british built boat which is (according to the recent survey) worth far more than I paid for it and has given me a quarter of a century and 44K nautical miles of safe single-handing in Western Approches and the Med.
Bu**er opportunity-cost and inflation - it's been my magic carpet to see places and things I couldn't hope to have visited in any other manner...
I would just hope those owners of Macwesters and Centaurs, Twisters and Centurions, Oysters and Swans have anything like the enjoyment I've had out of this my 3rd boat.
 
charles_reed said:
Amusing to read all the musings about depreciation, opportunity cost etc.

We should all face the fact that a boat is a depreciating luxury and, however much you strain at the gnat, in real terms they will all cost you money.

As an AWB gets people afloat, has a fairly small capital cost, it does it's job.
One has to suffer from a particularly constricted view to aver that an AWB owner has no pride of ownership - though I do know of one HR owner who called off a French trip due to fear of getting oil on his boat; which might be considered as taking such pride too far.

As to these obscure arguments about the relative weight of hulls - the use of aramids and carbon fibre as well as Corex composite lay-up are a recognised way of having a light, strong boat - I own examples of both.

I write as the owner of a british built boat which is (according to the recent survey) worth far more than I paid for it and has given me a quarter of a century and 44K nautical miles of safe single-handing in Western Approches and the Med.
Bu**er opportunity-cost and inflation - it's been my magic carpet to see places and things I couldn't hope to have visited in any other manner...
I would just hope those owners of Macwesters and Centaurs, Twisters and Centurions, Oysters and Swans have anything like the enjoyment I've had out of this my 3rd boat.
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Parker?? Good taste!!!
 
Over the last 3 years my AWB 31 ft boat (bought & paid for new 11 years ago) has cost me £ 33,000-00 in running costs- No breakages, except for running aground & loosing the rudder- £5K
Would an expensive boat have cost more or less to run ( ignoring the rudder issue)?
Because that has to be taken into account
 
Daydream believer said:
Over the last 3 years my AWB 31 ft boat (bought & paid for new 11 years ago) has cost me £ 33,000-00 in running costs- No breakages, except for running aground & loosing the rudder- £5K
Would an expensive boat have cost more or less to run ( ignoring the rudder issue)?
Because that has to be taken into account
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Ive only had my boat for a year. Despite running a business where I know every penny that goes in and out, for the boat I have given up keeping track. I know it is not coming back!!
 
michael_w said:
Having owned 3 Scandanavian built boats, the mystique of quality is precisely that. ie a myth. What you are paying for is the very expensive worker's compensation package.
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A pint in Scandanavia costs 3 times what it does in the uk why shouldn't a boat? The pint tastes just the same and I'd prefer 3 of them for the same price.
 
Daydream believer said:
Over the last 3 years my AWB 31 ft boat (bought & paid for new 11 years ago) has cost me £ 33,000-00 in running costs-
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£11k per annum. Good grief. How on earth do you manage that? My 26' boat costs me £200 in insurance, £150 for swinging mooring, £550 for winter storage, £75 for sail overhaul and £100 for engine parts, antifouling and so on annually. A grand a year, ish.
 
JumbleDuck said:
£11k per annum. Good grief. How on earth do you manage that? My 26' boat costs me £200 in insurance, £150 for swinging mooring, £550 for winter storage, £75 for sail overhaul and £100 for engine parts, antifouling and so on annually. A grand a year, ish.
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MaMaybe bebecause you are in the south of a low coscost councountry and he is in the south of a high cost country? Or a mathematical mistake!!
 
Daydream believer said:
Over the last 3 years my AWB 31 ft boat (bought & paid for new 11 years ago) has cost me £ 33,000-00 in running costs- No breakages, except for running aground & loosing the rudder- £5K
Would an expensive boat have cost more or less to run ( ignoring the rudder issue)?
Because that has to be taken into account
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Yep, that sounds about right. Mine costs about 10-11k a year to use and maintain. Inc Marina fees, lifts, sail laundry, usual repairs, AF, visitor fees etc etc. And.. that is not counting depreciation.
 
Interesting that HR are being held up as the prime example of a quality blue water cruiser, with other scandie boats mentioned. If I were to really want to go Blue Water cruising (as opposed to just making the occasional long passage, such as a transatlantic) I would be looking at mostly French boats I think with Allures probably at the top of my list but others in there as well.
 
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