Keen_Ed
Well-Known Member
It's at 23:03 UTC today everywhere on the planet.
Real Differences Between Mass Produced and Quality Yachts
- Thread starter roblpm
- Start date
It's at 23:03 UTC today everywhere on the planet.
Keen_Ed
Well-Known Member
Don't see why the type of rudder has any significant effect on helm balance. That's a mast & keel position/ hull shape/ rig/ sail trim issue.
roblpm
Well-Known Member
That doesn't make me wrong!!!
I don't really get what it is so have no idea why its the same or different. All I know is that it is dark, raining and my wife is busy cancelling all our social arrangements due to a chest infection!!
roblpm
Well-Known Member
OK - what follows is purely my personal opinion, based on purely personal experience - it is not gospel.
Our previous boat was an AWB. Light displacement with a flat bottom and bolt-on keel. Also, deck-stepped mast and spade rudder.
We sailed her extensively over 5 years, in all kinds of weather, in the North Sea and the Channel area.
In that time we experienced plenty of slamming, pitching and at one point rig failure.
I also found that the spade rudder made she suffered from a fair bit of weather helm. You can argue that maybe I should pay more attention to sail trim (not my strongest suit), but crew is usually wife and kids. Frequent changes of sailplan are a no-no.
Things I all wanted to avoid in the next boat.
So, I wanted:
- skeg-hung rudder
- heavy displacement
- not a flat bottom with bolt-on keel
- keel-stepped mast
Arrived at this (apologies for the quality of the pictures - mobile phone).
I have found that hardly any of the AWB builders offer the options, which I deemed to be essential. If modern AWB builders did offer boats which met my criteria I would have bought one. Others will have other priorities.
For me the criteria were essential - not the badge. If it had been about the badge I certainly would not have bought a Kalik as no-one seems to have heard of the brand.
Looking good! You should start another thread with pictures of your refurb.
So slamming is bad. But as I said before new quality boats aren't all heavy displacement so they wouldn't necessarily be any different to the awbs.
Come on, tell us which awb it was before!!
dom
Well-Known Member
It's a personal choice, but I'd add:
1. A modern non-extreme medium-weight hull which can surf downwind; corkscrewing in waves like the old Swans did is a PITA. Look for boats with a track record of winning blowy offshore races.
2. A boat built with racing in mind will have more weight down below, a bigger and better rig, better sails and will be generally be more rewarding to sail on all points of sailing. Just beware of wide flat cockpits which can feel very exposed in a blow. Avoid at all costs the designs sporting big bathing platforms; these are simply wonderful in the Med, a bouncy pain in the neck offshore.
3. A boat with a long fairly sharp bow section is usually more comfortable offshore; avoid over-fat boats designed to squeeze a big/two cabin(s) in at the front - a particular problem in the 39-45' range.
Once you have chosen a boat see if you can get a test sail in that/similar boat with a confident crew who are going offshore in roughish conditions; F7/8 is perfect. See how much you enjoy the vessel; if you don't like it that's fine, no matter what anybody else says!
nickf
Well-Known Member
Even they are available mass produced. Google "water strruck bricks"!!
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Ever met a real hi-fi nut? A colleague and friends of mine once told me, with breathless excitement, that he had just bought some eyewateringly expensive speakers cable, made not out of normal copper but out of special "OFHC" copper. He was only a little downheartened when I pointed out that all wiring is made from oxygen-free high-conductivity copper.
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
There's the blog (see signature)
Dunno - comparable to us is size/finish is an HR43 - weighs in at 12.7T. Our displacement is 13.2T.
Comparable in size is also a Beneteau 45 Oceanis - displaces 9.55T.
An Etap 38i
jamesbell12
New Member
Thanks for sharing .
Polux
Well-Known Member
About that I don't know, I would have to look but I had looked about the differences in what regards stability between an Hanse 345 and a HR 342 and I bet you will be interested 
http://interestingsailboats.blogspot.pt/2014/03/stability-1-misleading-boats-hanse-345.html
http://interestingsailboats.blogspot.pt/2014/03/stability-1-misleading-boats-hanse-345.html
LP1
Well-Known Member
I have read with interest all the replies to this thread. I only have one question.
Can someone please explain to a thicko like me, what do AWB and MAB stand for!
Thanks
Can someone please explain to a thicko like me, what do AWB and MAB stand for!
Thanks
sailorman
Well-Known Member
average white boat
mankey auld boat
mankey auld boat
LP1
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that, it really clears things up for me, I am much wiser now and grateful for the input.
No really, I am. Have a great New Year dude.
Breizh
Active Member
I have enjoyed reading through this thread, very interesting and entertaining. However, as per the above quotation from your original post, I have 2 questions:
1. Which 1994 boat did you buy?
2. Which AWB hull is the best?
Apologies if these questions have already been answered, but I didn't see them answered as yet.
Kind regards,
Breizh
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
No criticism meant but do you do not upgrade ropes, buy reeds every year, get an extra pilot book for an extended cruising area, get updated charts, a new card for the chart plotter, fill with fuel, loose a shackle or 2. buy some new spanners, replace some hoses. update the ssr, maintain the epirb, get new LJ gas refills,pay to berth on in a marina when visiting, buy new flares. get some new sailing gear at the boat show. change the autopilot because it broke 4 times. replace the wind indicator. Service the liferaft, get a replacement dinghy pump. new anodes, order a nw set of laminate sails
The list can go on & on ( I did that at complete random)& clearly ia lot depends on how much sailing you do, how much of your own maintenance you do & whether you repair or chuck things.
My expense list was prepared because i am now retired & wanted to know where the h..ll the pension was going. I got an awful shock. but i did record every single penny that i certainly ignored when I was working--i just wondered what a so called " quality" boat cost to run & whether there was any saving in spending the extra at the start. Ie better instruments, better cordage, better quality sails, better quality sail covers, so no need to upgrade etc etc
i am assuming that whereas my boat did not come with (for example) a wind indicator, or even VHF, a quality yacht would include this in the purchase price. I did hear a rumour that Northshore charged ridiculously high amounts for quite simple extras ( it is only an example) but i would expect an HR to be fully kitted & the gear to be more B & G rather than NASA so hopefully in need of less repair (at the start anyway)
Last edited:
pvb
Well-Known Member
A new Hallberg-Rassy will include a windex, but certainly no VHF radio (or even an antenna). There'll be minimal instrumentation, usually Raymarine.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Ah. I see what you mean. Yes, I have cruising expenses as well, but I don't count them as boat costs, more as boating ones, if you see what I mean. For my summer cruise I expect to spend about £200/week, including all food, occasional marina visits, fuel, Crinan Canal fees and so on.
I am sure that anyone who regularly buys news sets of laminate sails (and I don't criticise those who do) can rack up the bills, but I don't think that boat ownership has to be particularly expensive.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
No of course it does not. We all cut our cloth to suit
All i wondered was - Is it cheaper to run an expensive boat than a cheaper one
Pvb has pointed out that an HR does not come with all the bells & whistles-- Worrying that because I am even less able to afford one than i thought i was 10 minutes ago !!!!!
roblpm
Well-Known Member
I bought a Parker 275 but its not really relevant to this thread as it is great for its intended purpose which is racing round the cans and a bit of coastal cruising. Also lift keel/shallow draft as I sail in the Forth where there is a lot of mud!
This thread was really aimed at the future when I go further afield.
As to which awb hull is best I am no further forward. Modern quality boats seem not much heavier than the mass produced boats. I think slamming upwind seems to be the difference but no easy way to tell without trying!
Bav34
...
And predictably you never were going to be.
My 1989 Westerly, motoring with a 18hp engine, used to go from 6 knots to stopped dead with water cascading all over the deck off HillHead (Southampton) in any sort of swell. Slammed so hard it was dangerous. I think you'll find the hull shape is the factor not the manufacturer. I think I might have just stated the obvious
