Reading conditions better - Twizzle

andyb28

andyb28

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Good Afternoon everyone,

I am looking for local advice on crossing The Twizzle from Titchmarsh to the Orwell?
I have two apps on my phone, YachtWeather and Windy.

Yesterday I finally had some time to get out Sailing and wanted to go up the Orwell. I checked both apps and it appeared to show 2 foot waves, which didnt sound too bad.
Once I got into the Twizzle, it was horrible and after 45 minutes of bouncing towards Felixstowe, I gave up / turned round and played in Hamford Water. It was obviously better protected and rather nice.

I could do with a bit of advice about this. Is it just a case of, it's almost always like this because its open and you just have to push through to get to the nice rivers?
What should I be looking for on these apps to tell me if it's going to be a nice crossing, or being in a washing machine?

Many Thanks
Andy
 
Lots of different things affect sea state. Direction of wind vs tide, weather over the previous 24/48 hours, local tidal features, sea bed features and depth etc.

I went out of the Deben on Sunday in an open launch and it was quite choppy in places. Caught a bit of spray over the front of the boat and the dog got a bit nervous!

What to do will depend a bit on what boat you have and how sensitive you are to bouncing around. Many would just put up with it, but sailing is supposed to be fun so absolutely right to change plans if the going is uncomfortable.
 
Any North Easterly F3, or above, is pretty unpleasant across Dovercourt Bay towards the Pye End. Particularly on the ebb. It would depend on what boat. There is not much width in the channel to tack. If it was me, I would stay in the backwaters, no question.
I would rather be in here , wishing I was out there, than out there, wishing I was in here!
 
Many thanks to you both for taking the time to reply.

I have a Hunter Pilot 27. To be fair, the boat was taking it fine. It was just uncomfortable.
So far, I haven't seen this stretch of water anything other than nasty. Previously I had a motorboat and could get across this and into cover the other side a lot quicker.
 
Live wave height data at Harwich Approach (not sure exactly where the instrument is) is available here: Wave Height - Harwich Haven Authority. I've never used it so not sure (a) how accurate it is and (b) how it translates to wave heights across the flats to Pye End.

Pendantic mode on - The Twizzle is just the top bit of the Walton Channel as you approach WFYC and Titchmarsh. If the waves are bad there I'm staying at home!
 
MikeBz said:
Live wave height data at Harwich Approach (not sure exactly where the instrument is) is available here: Wave Height - Harwich Haven Authority. I've never used it so not sure (a) how accurate it is and (b) how it translates to wave heights across the flats to Pye End.

Pendantic mode on - The Twizzle is just the top bit of the Walton Channel as you approach WFYC and Titchmarsh. If the waves are bad there I'm staying at home!
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Oh, I thought it was the whole stretch up to the opening of Harwich and Felixstowe. My mistake,
Does it have a name? The buoy Pye End is probably a clue :)
 
The entrance channel to the Walton Backwaters, I think of it as the "Walton Channel", but may have another name, can be extremely variable in sea state in a matter of hours.
Some years ago we sailed around from RHYC to Stone Point in my RHOD, 20ft open keelboat for those unfamiliar, in company with friends in their 28' Classic yacht Nixi, the trip round was lovely, sunshine and a light F 2-3 NWly breeze. Whilst we were ashore the sea breeze started and by the time it was time to leave was perhaps F3-4. We set off home motoring with our Seagull Century but once round Island Point it was horrible, wind against brisk ebb tide and white horses right across the Channel!
Change of plans, we went up to Titchmarsh and left the RHOD and returned to RHYC in Nixi. Again exiting the Walton Channel was like a very uncomfortable fairground ride. Very short steep waves for maybe 1/2 a mile, then not too bad across the bay.
It is never wrong to change your plans in the face of changed or unexpected conditions.
 
I was in Hamford water yesterday afternoon too.

The wind was NE and stronger than forcast and once the ebb got going it was pretty bumpy. I wouldn't have gone out to the Pye End just for fun but if I'd needed too it would have been into a head on rather than a beam sea which would have been uncomfortable rather than unsafe. I wouldn't consider sailing in those conditions down the Walton Channel but with the wind in the NE and the ebb running hard you'd soon be in the lee of Felixtowe where it would be calmer and if you were turning due south for a run down the Wallet once the tide turned it'd calm down a lot.

The only caveat would be great caution with varying depths caused by wave height around Pye End close to the bottom of a spring tide
 
It can get pretty unpleasant there but it should never be a significant problem for a well found boat of 30’ or more. Some weeks ago we motored out on our way to Ipswich into a grey murk with 20-25kn true against us. Our speed kept on being knocked back to 3-4kn, but it was only for twenty five minutes or so before we got into shelter.

I always think of it as ‘the approach to the Backwaters’, which is too cumbersome for general use, and I can see that the loose use of Walton Channel is easier.
 
We had our own unpleasant entrance into the Walton Backwaters on my Moody 28, coming from the Orwell in early June.

It was relatively windy coming down the Orwell 15-20kts NE, and we were planning to head for the Deben for a rally at Woodbridge. But as it was a strong NE, we became a bit distracted by the decision of whether or not to attempt the Deben entrance in the conditions.

As we were coming past Shotley and Felixstowe, we decided not to attempt the Deben and that we would “play it safe and just spend the night at Titchmarsh” which we had visited before and felt we knew.

We managed to completely miss the line in the pilot book which said something like “It would be very unwise to attempt an entrance to the Walton Backwaters in a strong North Easterly.”

It was near to high tide, and the weather had grown a bit so by the time we started the entrance across the flats, the swell was pretty big.

Heading towards the Walton Channel from the Pye End buoy was a bit tense, but was swell on our quarter which the boat seemed to be handling fine.

It got spicy as we turned to head down the Walton Channel. We now had significant waves hitting us beam on, and as we entered the channel waves breaking just a few metres to our port from the sandbanks. I will admit my Dad and I did discuss whether we felt we were in control, or in a bit of trouble. The concern was that we really didn’t have the sea room to be knocked too far off course by the waves, as we had to navigate the channel. We tried to keep the waves just abaft the beam as much as we could.

In the end, I think I decided to cut the last corner just as you come to the line of moorings in the Walton Channel, as it was high water and we have a shallow draft. This felt like the lesser of two evils, as taking that last turn as per buoyage would have meant taking those large waves directly on the beam again.

As soon as we made it into the lee of the land, it was a big relief. The sea state calmed down, and although we were still seeing 25kts of wind, the relative calmness of the channel was incredibly welcome. When we finally got into the berth at Titchmarsh, we turned off the engine, closed the hatch, and went for a fairly long walk to blow away the adrenaline.

As if I needed any more convincing that the RNLI are out there watching our backs, the Walton lifeboat had zoomed into Titchmarsh ahead of us (straight across the shallows I’ll add!), clearly also keen to get out of the weather. It was comforting to know that they were so close, and sure enough it was there moored up at the entrance to Titchmarsh as we arrived.

I think the boat was fine and took it in its stride, although the beam-on waves did roll her sideways a fair bit. It was certainly the heaviest conditions I’d had her out in so far, and so it was more of a test for the crew! We wouldn’t make the same decision in the future!
 
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Generally the Dovercourt bit is OK but there tends to be a bit of a popple at Stone Point. As you say, it is fine to cut the corners near HW. We came that way last Friday in around 15-18kn wind and it was not too bad at just after HW but we went into Hamford Water to lower the main since I had a novice crew and it wouldn't waste much time motoring back with the new ebb.
 
MattS said:
We had our own unpleasant entrance into the Walton Backwaters on my Moody 28, coming from the Orwell in early June.

It was relatively windy coming down the Orwell 15-20kts NE, and we were planning to head for the Deben for a rally at Woodbridge. But as it was a strong NE, we became a bit distracted by the decision of whether or not to attempt the Deben entrance in the conditions.

As we were coming past Shotley and Felixstowe, we decided not to attempt the Deben and that we would “play it safe and just spend the night at Titchmarsh” which we had visited before and felt we knew.

We managed to completely miss the line in the pilot book which said something like “It would be very unwise to attempt an entrance to the Walton Backwaters in a strong North Easterly.”

It was near to high tide, and the weather had grown a bit so by the time we started the entrance across the flats, the swell was pretty big.

Heading towards the Walton Channel from the Pye End buoy was a bit tense, but was swell on our quarter which the boat seemed to be handling fine.

It got spicy as we turned to head down the Walton Channel. We now had significant waves hitting us beam on, and as we entered the channel waves breaking just a few metres to our port from the sandbanks. I will admit my Dad and I did discuss whether we felt we were in control, or in a bit of trouble. The concern was that we really didn’t have the sea room to be knocked too far off course by the waves, as we had to navigate the channel. We tried to keep the waves just abaft the beam as much as we could.

In the end, I think I decided to cut the last corner just as you come to the line of moorings in the Walton Channel, as it was high water and we have a shallow draft. This felt like the lesser of two evils, as taking that last turn as per buoyage would have meant taking those large waves directly on the beam again.

As soon as we made it into the lee of the land, it was a big relief. The sea state calmed down, and although we were still seeing 25kts of wind, the relative calmness of the channel was incredibly welcome. When we finally got into the berth at Titchmarsh, we turned off the engine, closed the hatch, and went for a fairly long walk to blow away the adrenaline.

As if I needed any more convincing that the RNLI are out there watching our backs, the Walton lifeboat had zoomed into Titchmarsh ahead of us (straight across the shallows I’ll add!), clearly also keen to get out of the weather. It was comforting to know that they were so close, and sure enough it was there moored up at the entrance to Titchmarsh as we arrived.

I think the boat was fine and took it in its stride, although the beam-on waves did roll her sideways a fair bit. It was certainly the heaviest conditions I’d had her out in so far, and so it was more of a test for the crew! We wouldn’t make the same decision in the future!
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As some know, we live in Naze Court and on the top floor have, a panoramic view from Walton Pier, panning clockwise to Felixstowe, taking in Walton town, all of the Backwaters, Dovercourt and Felixstowe so can continuously monitor conditions. We have sailed the area since 1994.

Above is an excellent summary.

All I would add, Stone Point can be exciting. If arriving across from Pye End in lively conditions, rather than negotiate Stone Point, into the Walton Channel, I would consider going to the Island Point cardinal and then on into Hamford Water. If the east end of Hamford Water is kicking up, continue west to turn into the Kirby Channel. Plenty of water and good holding and totally protected from the elements.

Having entered Hamford Water, another option is to anchor on the northern side in Oakley Creek, behind New/Pewit Island but be aware that a medium sized coaster uses this channel at high water on big tides.

Back to Kirby Creek. On a big tide (CD 4m), rather than anchor, it is feasible to continue south along Kirby Creek until you reach the Kirby Race Mark, turn port and then cross The Wade (following the withied channel) to The Twissel, Titchmarsh Marina and the top end of the Walton Channel). The Kirby Race Mark to the Naze Tower provides a good transit. Note of warning, for the first time, I would only attempt this on a rising tide.

Another option is to explore the Wade by dinghy before venturing across in a larger vessel.

For the more adventurous, you can continue to the western end of Hamford Water and on into Landermere Creek. It modestly dries at low tide but there are deep holes where you will remain afloat at all states of the tide.

For the really adventurous at high water, you can continue to the end of Landermere and into Beaumont Fee. As this dries, if you plan to stay a while, you will need to be able to take the bottom.

Real Swallows and Amazons Country.
 
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We came in Monday, when the winds were lighter, but still had a bumpy sail in. We stopped at Stone Point, and even with the NE wind and flood tide, early afternoon the waves around the dogleg & Island buoy were pretty daunting. The boats going out were taking a hammering and I wouldn't have wanted to go back out. The open seal watching boat from Harwich came in - I didn't see it go back but the customers would have got wet. And this was all before the ebb set in!
 
nortada said:
As some know, we live in Naze Court and on the top floor have, a panoramic view from Walton Pier, panning clockwise to Felixstowe, taking in Walton town, all of the Backwaters, Dovercourt and Felixstowe so can continuously monitor conditions. We have sailed the area since 1994.

Above is an excellent summary.

All I would add, Stone Point can be exciting. If arriving across from Pye End in lively conditions, rather than negotiate Stone Point, into the Walton Channel, I would consider going to the Island Point cardinal and then on into Hamford Water. If the east end of Hamford Water is kicking up, continue west to turn into the Kirby Channel. Plenty of water and good holding and totally protected from the elements.

Having entered Hamford Water, another option is to anchor on the northern side in Oakley Creek, behind New/Pewit Island but be aware that a medium sized coaster uses this channel at high water on big tides.

Back to Kirby Creek. On a big tide (CD 4m), rather than anchor, it is feasible to continue south along Kirby Creek until you reach the Kirby Race Mark, turn port and then cross The Wade (following the withied channel) to The Twissel, Titchmarsh Marina and the top end of the Walton Channel). The Kirby Race Mark to the Naze Tower provides a good transit. Note of warning, for the first time, I would only attempt this on a rising tide.

Another option is to explore the Wade by dinghy before venturing across in a larger vessel.

For the more adventurous, you can continue to the western end of Hamford Water and on into Landermere Creek. It modestly dries at low tide but there are deep holes where you will remain afloat at all states of the tide.

For the really adventurous at high water, you can continue to the end of Landermere and into Beaumont Fee. As this dries, if you plan to stay a while, you will need to be able to take the bottom.

Real Swallows and Amazons Country.
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This is very helpful, thank you.
I did notice a lot of other boats over shooting the Walton Channel and heading to Hamford Water to drop the sails. This makes a lot of sense and I will do this from now on myself.
There are some bits you mention that I haven't explored yet, but am looking forward to doing so.
 
nortada said:
Back to Kirby Creek. On a big tide (CD 4m), rather than anchor, it is feasible to continue south along Kirby Creek until you reach the Kirby Race Mark, turn port and then cross The Wade (following the withied channel) to The Twissel, Titchmarsh Marina and the top end of the Walton Channel). The Kirby Race Mark to the Naze Tower provides a good transit. Note of warning, for the first time, I would only attempt this on a rising tide.
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We tried this once, having overnighted afloat in the SE-upstream-facing part of Kirby Creek well beyond Honey Island, overlooking Horsey Mere. Despite drawing 0.9m and it being near HW (not neaps or springs, late morning tide IIRC) and trying to follow the most significant looking channel on Google Maps satellite view (handily taken at low tide so it shows all the gulleys & rills) we were still dragging mud some time before we got to The Wade so gave up and exited the way we had come.

For the more adventurous, you can continue to the western end of Hamford Water and on into Landermere Creek. It modestly dries at low tide but there are deep holes where you will remain afloat at all states of the tide.
Click to expand...

Yes there are some amply deep holes in the upper parts of Landermere Creek. Don't tell anyone else though ;)
 
andyb28 said:
This is very helpful, thank you.
I did notice a lot of other boats over shooting the Walton Channel and heading to Hamford Water to drop the sails. This makes a lot of sense and I will do this from now on myself.
There are some bits you mention that I haven't explored yet, but am looking forward to doing so.
Click to expand...
You can of course come into the Walton channel and drop the sails between Stone Point and the moorings, but this sometimes requires nifty work, easier in a small boat. If there are anchored boats or the tide is running strongly, or in my recent case the crew is unreliable, Hamford Water may be easier.
 
MikeBz said:
We tried this once, having overnighted afloat in the SE-upstream-facing part of Kirby Creek well beyond Honey Island, overlooking Horsey Mere. Despite drawing 0.9m and it being near HW (not neaps or springs, late morning tide IIRC) and trying to follow the most significant looking channel on Google Maps satellite view (handily taken at low tide so it shows all the gulleys & rills) we were still dragging mud some time before we got to The Wade so gave up and exited the way we had come.
Yes there are some amply deep holes in the upper parts of Landermere Creek. Don't tell anyone else though ;)
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The preferred channel is marked with withies.

Actually the Wade is very flat so the depths are constant. Once you are across the causeway between Hornsey Island and the mainland there is a deep channel from the Wade Race Mark around to the entrance to Titchmarsh Marina (and beyond).

I have frequently crossed The Wade in a 1.2m draught boat up to 1.5 hrs before high water. Soft mud, rarely touched and never got stuck.

If in doubt, anchor up and explore by dinghy, armed with a hand-held GPS. You would then have your own preferred route.
 
A trip up to Beaumont quay can be entertaining, but it’s some years since I did it. There used to be a handsome plaque telling how the stones for the quay came from London Bridge, but the plaque had been removed when I last went, I trust for safe keeping, though I couldn’t find out where. Maximum draft perhaps six inches.
 
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