Re-engining a Birchwood 33

[ianc1200]

I'm thinking of buying an older GRP boat, mainly for inland waterways or short costal trips, but capable of crossing North Sea - I'm based in the Walton Backwaters, NE Essex. Considered Profile 33's, Seamaster 30's but it's a Birchwood 33 that's caught my eye. I can see there's plenty of different styles/layouts, but one constant in the boats for sale is they haven't been re-engined. They still have the original six cylinder Ford Lehmans, Bedfords etc, twin 120 - 200hp. Whilst these engines would be infinitely repairable I would be worried about reliability. I wouldn't be looking for semi-planing qualities but nevertheless ability to cope with strong tides/currents. For the size and weight of one these would their be an issues replacing with twin 43hp Betas or similar?

 

[PaulRainbow]

I'm thinking of buying an older GRP boat, mainly for inland waterways or short costal trips, but capable of crossing North Sea - I'm based in the Walton Backwaters, NE Essex. Considered Profile 33's, Seamaster 30's but it's a Birchwood 33 that's caught my eye. I can see there's plenty of different styles/layouts, but one constant in the boats for sale is they haven't been re-engined. They still have the original six cylinder Ford Lehmans, Bedfords etc, twin 120 - 200hp. Whilst these engines would be infinitely repairable I would be worried about reliability. I wouldn't be looking for semi-planing qualities but nevertheless ability to cope with strong tides/currents. For the size and weight of one these would their be an issues replacing with twin 43hp Betas or similar?

No chance of semi-planing Ian. You would be restricted to hull speed and a strong tide would slow you down.

 

[PCUK]

If they're not broke, don't fix. If they have been properly looked after then don't waste a substantial amount of money that you will never recover and end up with an underpowered boat.

 

[Dino]

You’d be far better off putting the price of the new engines and their fitting, towards a newer boat. Re-engining old boats rarely makes financial sense.
It’ll probably cost £25-30k to replace them. What would you get if you added the two amounts?

 

[ianc1200]

Thanks for the replies;

No chance of semi-planing Ian. You would be restricted to hull speed and a strong tide would slow you down.

Which is what I was thinking - displacement speed would be easily achievable & I wasn't wanting more.

If they're not broke, don't fix. If they have been properly looked after then don't waste a substantial amount of money that you will never recover and end up with an underpowered boat.

The engines would be an average of 50 years old by now - even if it ain't broke, I would be worried that's just around the corner mid trip/mid summer. Why underpowered if only wanting to achieve displacement speed? I would think that's achievable on one 43hp only.

You’d be far better off putting the price of the new engines and their fitting, towards a newer boat. Re-engining old boats rarely makes financial sense.
It’ll probably cost £25-30k to replace them. What would you get if you added the two amounts?

Very true. I've re-engined 4 times since 2003, also a couple of times late 80's/early 90's. In recent years (2013 & 2015) both a 14hp Yanmar and a 20 hp Beta was 11k each, and the only reason I kept the boat with the Yanmar is I'd never get back what I'd put in. But a newer boat - say a TS32 etc - is still going to have quite old engines. For the Birchwood 33's currently on sale, one in the west country @ 42.5k, really nice boat all round except has the old engines, others 16 - 25k roughly but would need tidying up/updating + re-engining, and again would never get the money back but for 10 -15 years might have something comfortable, reliable, two heads and a shower, room for grandchildren (how I'm selling the idea to wife) & could be used Thames/Broads/Holland/locally without great difficulty.

 

[PCUK]

Well, it's obvious you'd made up your mind before posting and wanted some moral support. So ignore my previous and go ahead. It sounds like a great idea, especially as you have done it before. I am sure everyone will agree that you are doing the right thing.

 

[plumbob]

Guy who moors near me had his old Ford engines rebuilt in his Birchwood 33. 14k for the work plus time to strip out and reinstall etc. Finished that job then his steel fuel tank leaked. Lots of work for seemingly little gain.

 

[ChromeDome]

Appreciate you've done it before, but each project is different. In general, a proper investigation of existing engines + drivelines, maybe an oil analysis, will give you a lot of important information when considering repower or rebuild. Check spares availability and even feasibility of rebuilding - not all makes and models are made equal, quite a few may not pass your screening.

If needing something bigger than 30-40 hp, e.g. twin 4-6 liter 200 hp as you mention, both access, handling and cost might surprise you. Remember to factor in instrumentation, accessories, fittings, driveline, gearbox, propeller(s) etc. if not replacing the engine 1:1.

 

[oldgit]

Birchwood 33 with small engines . Fine on non tidal waters
Collegue has a 33 with pair of 80 or 100 hp diesels.
It really struggled on tidal waters.
Struggled ie, totally failed, to keep up with other boats on a cross channel trip a few years ago.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Yes it’ll only make hull speed easily, so about 6-7 kts. Max might be say 10 kts which burns huge amounts of fuel to dig a hole in the water and make smoke. Planing needs 400hp.

 

[ianc1200]

Thanks again for all your replies - I'm seeing that 1. at twin 43hp it would be underpowered, and 2. leave in place the existing. Suggestions I've had include oil analysis for both engines and gearboxes, insist on sea trial and running at least for 30mins full power to check for smoke and overheating, having engineer's report on engines, and buying complete marinisation units - heat exchangers/water pumps/etc for both engines as spares.
The engines seem to be Ford 6 cylinder Dorset blocks which I'm told at our marina are in widespread use.

The best Birchwood 33 I've seen so far is 42.5k, my wife seems taken with the photo's but no response from the brokers yet (Portishead Marina). Others would appear to need work/deep cleaning/upgrading of a lot of things.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Just had a look at that Portishead example, looks very well kept. It's being sold as a river / canal boat; you'd need to be 100% sure that a boat with a 6-7kt cruising speed is what you want / need for your use and cruising area, otherwise it's going to become very frustrating I suspect. Just my own view.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Just had a look on Yachtmarket. For about the same money as the Birchwood there's a quite a variety of other craft on offer, including some semi-D types eg Nimbus and Aquastar that might also appeal; might be worth widening the net a bit.

Boat Search Results | TheYachtMarket

 

[ChromeDome]

... my wife seems taken with the photo's ..

There is no, absolutely no way around seeing it "in the flesh". I like to arrive early for a view, to get a good look on my own.
First impressions on arrival, first impressions on board, the smell, the atmosphere. Anything that was off-target for the photos.

And the details, making up the whole picture. If what you see immediately indicates a lack of interest or care, there's usually more/worse behind the scenes.

And vice versa. There may be signs of normal use that are consistent with age and are perfectly acceptable with careful TLC

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Totally agree. The second hand boat buying experience is as much about the emotional connection to the boat as the spec / price / whatever. A bad first impression is insurmountable.

 

[dunedin]

Just had a look at that Portishead example, looks very well kept. It's being sold as a river / canal boat; you'd need to be 100% sure that a boat with a 6-7kt cruising speed is what you want / need for your use and cruising area, otherwise it's going to become very frustrating I suspect. Just my own view.

Thousands of sailing boat owners are fine with - some aspire to - 6 to 7 knots cruising speed. More than needed for inland waterways, and many people have sailed round the world in slower boats (albeit not suggesting a river craft would be suitable for Cape Horn). Plenty for a cross Channel, and plenty for the strongest tides - you wait and go with the flow in strong tides.

 

[Moonbeam]

Be aware, The Birchwood 33 GT in Portishead has been on the market for well over a year (probably nearer two years). It's very optimistically priced and has not budged.

When I looked into the Birchwoods a few years back, the 33 Classic seems to be the preferred layout over the GT due to raised larger aft deck and better aft cabin bed layout & headroom. Certainly, the Classic seems to sell more readily.

I have a PDF of a 2015 review of the Birchwood 33 in Motorboat Owner magazine. PM me your email, if you want me to send you a copy.

For nearly the same money as the Portishead Birchwood GT... you could have a Broom Crown 37.

Here is one near you Broom Crown 37 For Sale | Norfolk Yacht Agency | NYB138655

They also have a Broom Continental 37 for £29k

But both boats have the original Perkins HTs, laid on their side, contra rotating engines with spares difficult and in some cases impossible to get. But apparently, the Broom owners association can help out on spares. There is plenty of info in the forum about these.

I don't know if you have had contact with the Norfolk Yacht Agency yet, but we found them (Matt) to be excellent when we went to look at a couple of boats they had. They will have a lot of stock of the kind of thing that will work for your cruising area. Worth contacting them and telling them what you are after.

 

[Moonbeam]

PS: If 37' is too large... another boat that might suit is the Freeman 33. No aft cabin, but very useable outdoor space via patio doors.

Freeman Cruisers - Model

No longer available example here: Freeman 33 Sedan For Sale, 10.06m, 1977

 

[Sticky Fingers]

...
I don't know if you have had contact with the Norfolk Yacht Agency yet, but we found them (Matt) to be excellent when we went to look at a couple of boats they had. They will have a lot of stock of the kind of thing that will work for your cruising area. Worth contacting them and telling them what you are after.

Totally agree ref NYA, they've been excellent to deal with over the last few years, even though I didn't buy anything! They have. a lot of expertise in Brooms in particular so if that appeals, got to be worth a call.

 

[ianc1200]

Be aware, The Birchwood 33 GT in Portishead has been on the market for well over a year (probably nearer two years). It's very optimistically priced and has not budged.

Many thanks for this interesting information - it might save me a lot of wasted time. I'll pm you my email address - thanks for the kind offer.

I will broaden my search though - bigger is best for me. Ability to go tidal/cross north sea, with lowish air draft, displacement cruising rather than semi planing is what I'm looking for. The Freeman 33 might be a good option too. I'd be worried re the HT Perkins on their side - heard a few stories about those.