Re caulking costs

nrbx

nrbx

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Hi everyone,

No doubt this has been done to death but I'm having a hard time finding a thread.

I need to obtain a quote to re-caulk or replace whichever is cheaper the fairly small bathing platform on a Princess V42.

Need to know the cost for non DIY, as personally that is what I would be doing.

Has anyone had any re-caulking done? Or know who I could contact to go about getting an estimate?

Many thanks in advance,

Neil
 
nrbx said:
Hi everyone,

No doubt this has been done to death but I'm having a hard time finding a thread.

I need to obtain a quote to re-caulk or replace whichever is cheaper the fairly small bathing platform on a Princess V42.

Need to know the cost for non DIY, as personally that is what I would be doing.

Has anyone had any re-caulking done? Or know who I could contact to go about getting an estimate?

Many thanks in advance,

Neil
Click to expand...

Neil,

May I suggest you post the location of the boat as I'm quite sure there will be somebody along soon to offer the advice!

And by "caulking" are you meaning replacing the black sealer between the wooden strips?
 
Yes, the black sealer between the wooden strips.

The boat is in York, but is coming to the solent later in the season so quotes to have the work done there are also not a problem. As i suspect there won't be anyone up here who does it much.

Included picture that just about shows the issue where the caulking has "escaped".
Piccy removed as its uber wide...

Link at http://www.webhostchat.co.uk/desck.jpg
 
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nrbx said:
Hi everyone,

No doubt this has been done to death but I'm having a hard time finding a thread.

I need to obtain a quote to re-caulk or replace whichever is cheaper the fairly small bathing platform on a Princess V42.

Need to know the cost for non DIY, as personally that is what I would be doing.

Has anyone had any re-caulking done? Or know who I could contact to go about getting an estimate?

Many thanks in advance,

Neil
Click to expand...

If the grooves don't need re-routing, you don't need a load of quotes for job like that. It's 2 days. Rip out old caulk with special tool. apply new bond breaker tape (do not hire anyone who refuses that step). Mask. Squirt in new caulk. remove tape. Retrun 3 days later to sand off. £50 in materials and 2 days labour and VAT. So hire whoever seems competent and quotes ballpark £500.

If you are fussy, there are different caulks - polyurethane based and silicone based. The performance really does vary widely. Lots of salty seadogs will have opinions. FWIW my view is (a) avoid Saba - it is truly awful product which, sadly, i have on my current Sq78; (b) sika 292DC is ok, and positioned as a quality offering but in truth is mid range (c) if you can get it without shipping cost nightmare use TDS caulk, which is generally regarded by those in the know as best in the world from the world leader in teak decks. Silicone based. I have specced this for my new build

PS your pic should be 640 pixels wide, max
 
Try Dave Dickinson at Newark marina he travels.

Take it the sq 52 has gone? Did you ever resolve the missing prop cost with you know who at port Solent?
 
Thank you jfm, that is about what I expected.

Yes the Squadron has gone, this is the Part ex boat. Having issues with a buyer of this complaining about everything down to the wiper blades (which work fine) needing replacing as they are not "new".

Really enjoyed the Squadron, ended up out in a F7/8 briefly on the trip from Porstmouth to York and it really didn't care in the slightest about that. Fortunatly we were going with it and not against it which no doubt helped.

General opinion is they want a new boat at half the price. Fortunatly the total defects are due to come in for less than you'd spend on it's service every year so it can't be too bad!

Regarding the prop, "you know who's" insurers paid me in the end so that was all settled.
Evidently the defense of the underwater gypsys stole it was not going to stand up :)

Just got to work out the costs of a dent in the rubbing strake (stainless steel 2.5 meter section) and 10 small chips/deep scratches in the gelcoat and I can go enjoy the weekend.
 
jfm said:
If the grooves don't need re-routing, you don't need a load of quotes for job like that. It's 2 days. Rip out old caulk with special tool. apply new bond breaker tape (do not hire anyone who refuses that step). Mask. Squirt in new caulk. remove tape. Retrun 3 days later to sand off. £50 in materials and 2 days labour and VAT. So hire whoever seems competent and quotes ballpark £500.
Click to expand...


I would add, use primer also, especially on wood that is not brand new. Sikaflex make a primer for their 292 DC product. It really helps the caulking adhere to the wood in my experience.


I agree also on the necessity to use bond breaking tape.

Cheers,
Paul
 
nrbx said:
Hi everyone,

No doubt this has been done to death but I'm having a hard time finding a thread.

I need to obtain a quote to re-caulk or replace whichever is cheaper the fairly small bathing platform on a Princess V42.

Need to know the cost for non DIY, as personally that is what I would be doing.

Has anyone had any re-caulking done? Or know who I could contact to go about getting an estimate?

Many thanks in advance,

Neil
Click to expand...

I just had the bathing platform teak replaced on my V40 last year. Cost me about £1k and had planks fitted rather than veneer.
Elessar of this parish sorted this for me and a good job it was too.
 
jfm said:
If the grooves don't need re-routing, you don't need a load of quotes for job like that. It's 2 days. Rip out old caulk with special tool. apply new bond breaker tape (do not hire anyone who refuses that step). Mask. Squirt in new caulk. remove tape. Retrun 3 days later to sand off. £50 in materials and 2 days labour and VAT. So hire whoever seems competent and quotes ballpark £500.

If you are fussy, there are different caulks - polyurethane based and silicone based. The performance really does vary widely. Lots of salty seadogs will have opinions. FWIW my view is (a) avoid Saba - it is truly awful product which, sadly, i have on my current Sq78; (b) sika 292DC is ok, and positioned as a quality offering but in truth is mid range (c) if you can get it without shipping cost nightmare use TDS caulk, which is generally regarded by those in the know as best in the world from the world leader in teak decks. Silicone based. I have specced this for my new build
Click to expand...

Interesting info. What does the bond breaker tape do, allow for easier removal, or for lateral movement of the planks? Also slight correction, Sika product is 290DC, not 292 isn't it, or is there also a 292 caulking?
 
Nick_H said:
Interesting info. What does the bond breaker tape do, allow for easier removal, or for lateral movement of the planks? Also slight correction, Sika product is 290DC, not 292 isn't it, or is there also a 292 caulking?
Click to expand...

if I get jfm's terminology, this is an extremely important issue in chaulking.
If you think of the squarish section of the gap to be filled, you MUST make sure that the chaulking ONLY adheres to both vertical sections (one on each side) and NOT the bottom. Then it will indeed move properly when lateral movement is introduced between planks (expansion due to heat, flexing, etc)

Else, chaulking fails on the top edge to the plank...

V.
 
Nick_H said:
Interesting info. What does the bond breaker tape do, allow for easier removal, or for lateral movement of the planks? Also slight correction, Sika product is 290DC, not 292 isn't it, or is there also a 292 caulking?
Click to expand...
Yup, sorry, 290DC.

Tape creates adhesion of caulk only to 2 sides of the slot. If you have 3-sided adhesion, then as the wood shrinks the tension in the caulk at the centrepoint of bottom of slot increases hugely and it splits. That's the theory at least - I suspect the point is bigged up by caulkers and that 3 sided isn't as big a crime as they say, but seems not worth taking the chance. Also of course you should caulk when wood is quite dry ie well shrunken, which means caulk is often in compression when boat is in use
 
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jfm said:
Yup, sorry, 290DC.

Tape creates adhesion of caulk only to 2 sides of the slot. If you have 3-sided adhesion, then as the wood shrinks the tension in the caulk at the centrepoint of bottom of slot increases hugely and it splits. That's the theory at least - I suspect the point is bigged up by caulkers and that 3 sided isn't as big a crime as they say, but seems not worth taking the chance. Also of course you should caulk when wood is quite dry ie well shrunken, which means caulk is often in compression when boat is in use
Click to expand...
+1

plus, best to chaulk while temperature is DROPPING, so juice can be sucked in the micropores of the wood as it cools and sucks air in...
OK, you understand we're talking minute quantities, but everything that will help in achieving better adhesion counts

cheers

V.
 
jfm said:
That's the theory at least
Click to expand...
Yep, that's one theory.

And I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, but I heard a couple of wooden boat builders who not only say it's not worth using breaking tapes, but it's actually better not to do that, in terms of long term deck sealing.
The rationale behind their point is that even if the caulking begins to detach from the "side walls" (as it usually does after some years, starting from the more superficial part which is more exposed to UV, rain, etc., sometimes to the point that you can stick a nail between the rubber and the plank), the bottom has more chances to remain sealed, hence avoiding leaks, which on wooden boats are even more critical than with teak laid over GRP.

Then again, also with regard to teak maintenance, the theories I forgot are probably more than those I can rembemer... :)
 
MapisM said:
Yep, that's one theory.

And I'm not saying it doesn't make sense, but I heard a couple of wooden boat builders who not only say it's not worth using breaking tapes, but it's actually better not to do that, in terms of long term deck sealing.
The rationale behind their point is that even if the caulking begins to detach from the "side walls" (as it usually does after some years, starting from the more superficial part which is more exposed to UV, rain, etc., sometimes to the point that you can stick a nail between the rubber and the plank), the bottom has more chances to remain sealed, hence avoiding leaks, which on wooden boats are even more critical than with teak laid over GRP.

Then again, also with regard to teak maintenance, the theories I forgot are probably more than those I can rembemer... :)
Click to expand...


Not to argue, but I have seams where both have been carried on Dragoon. In the case of the seams with breaker tape (which is actually more of a length of round section rubber), the seams have lasted very well. Many are still original (>30 years) old and are an absolute pig to remove as the caulking is well adhered to the planks.

Where a section of deck was replaced just before I bought the boat (I guess 12 years ago), I've had to replace almost all of the caulking as the planks had shrunk and the adherence to the subdeck was greater than the former, breaking the adhesion to the teak. This gave me a very bad back for several days after tackling it :o)

This was my experience at least.

Cheers,
Paul
 
dragoon said:
This was my experience at least.
Click to expand...
Not arguing about that at all, but I think it's extremely difficult to understand whether the original job was so much better because of the breaking tapes or some other reasons: better rubber quality, better cleaning, teak not perfectly dried when the second job was made, or whatever.
In order to get a somewhat scientific answer, I suppose it would be necessary to recaulk the same deck, at the same time, with the same raw material and preparation, using the tapes for half of it and nothing for the other half.
And then wait some years and see what happens.
I doubt that such test has ever been made (also by builders), so probably everyone just sticks to his preferred theory... :)

30+ years is amazing anyway!
I guess you can't know for sure which material was used at that time, or can you?
 
MapisM said:
30+ years is amazing anyway!
I guess you can't know for sure which material was used at that time, or can you?
Click to expand...


I agree regards the scientific approach - my sample of 1 is non conclusive.

The boat is a Storebro (Swedish built) - when I looked into this before, I came to the conclusion that it was Sika-Flex that was used. Not sure how I came to this conclusion, but it may have been after visiting the Storebro/Nimbus factory in Gothenburg some years ago.


Cheers,
Paul
 
Yes sika flex is/was widely used in Swedish boat building..
I changed all my caulking on my coach roof, replacing it with a MS polymer as I was laying coelan on it after... I bought a Fein multi-tool & a caulking blade after taking hours getting the first lot out(without the Fein) it worked a treat:)
Somebody quoted you 16 man hours (2 working days), that's probably about right for a bathing platform.. not a difficult job (proof in the fact I done it) ..
 
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