Raymarine shares!!

VO5 said:
No, its not the theory.

I will explain the theory in a moment.....

First of all, leave them alone, just don't go near them. You would lose your stake. Simple.

The "theory" is a fanciful spin put upon this topic by economists who are not practical persons but instead muddled theorists who are confused by their own ideas, bless them...
:eek::cool:

The reality is that investment is medium to long term, and speculation, with the additional excitement of uncertainty and possible danger is short term to very short term....:p...and in some cases...very short term indeed....:eek::D
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Perhaps you should explain the theory because I would dearly love to hear your version of it. The fact that you subscribe such a statement to economists is rather revealing in its own right. Such fanciful spin never appeared in any of the texts I have read - what did appear was APT, CAPM, CCAPM, risk-neutral valuation, binomial pricing, Black-Scholes, Arrow-Debreu state pricing, no-arbitrage. Plus a whole host of empirical tests of excess returns, excess volatility, volatility smiles, etc. etc. I guess you might be mistaking easy-reading investments guides for best-practice economics. Or even making the mistake of thinking that the authors of such books are respected economists. Neither is true.
 
The share price gives the impression of a company that is failing. Only those working for the company will know the true position and it has been known for companies in a similar position to recover. A recent example was the car dealer Pendragon. Their share price fell to just over 1p in December 08 before recovering to around 35-50p (see uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/ta?s=PDG.L&t=1y&l=on&z=m&q=l&p=&a=&c=). However, many other companies have not been so lucky. The rapid collapse of the Raymarine share price in the middle of November is a very bad sign.

If Raymarine does go into liquidation then adminstrators will be appointed who will try to sell the firm. If there are no buyers then existing assets - which includes stock - will be liquidated. The stock might be available to the general public but I guess the administrator would try to sell it into the trade in large lots.
 
starboard said:
Having been buying RAY shares during the last few months on the chance of a take over by Garmin...my average is shed loads at 12p, this past week has seen a constant fall in the price and now can be picked up for less that 5p..!!! I reckon that RAY gear is the best on the market so surely they are not going to go bust??? Fingers crossed for a quick recover....lokks like my ideas of a HR31 and now becoming more of a Mirror Dinghy!!! :-(
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What is worrying is how they got into this, with the market being very good up until the recession hit. Could it be that whilst all the kit looks good and generally works well, of the 5 major bits of kit that I have which are manufactured by Ray, two have gone wrong, meaning that they had to be sent back, with one of those (radio) going back twice, I suspect i am not the only one and nothing hits profits more. The guy that fitted my gear wont supply Ray kit any more as it is always a problem so he says. If they can sort that out and get rid of the 100m debt it should be a good bet for someone.
 
See here

None of the directors have dealt since 08, so they're not buying them up thinking they're a bargain. Volume of trades is very small, although someone today has bought 80,000 at £0.06 (£5K), enough to jump the price up by .4 pence.

Looks dead in the water, except for some minnows nibbling the edges of the corpse.

Mind you, I bought some housebuilder stocks at the bottom, and they've bounced quite nicely. Enough to make me wish I hadn't punted quite so timourously.

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I want to buy some electronics soon - don't think it'll be Raymarine.
 
I've bought the assets from many company liquidations, the true story of liquidations is a very ugly one indeed. At one time the only people that got anything were the liquidator, tax man and landlord, times have moved on and the tax man has lessened his grip. Truth is that there are two kinds of asset. One is the physical stock and plant which often isn't worth much, the other is intellectual property. The value of IP depends very much on the directors and transferability. In the case of Raymarine I suspect there isn't much IP value, the product range is mirrored or duplicated by other ranges, I don't honestly think there is anything totally unique to them that doesn't already exist or could be created. The other part of IP is the market knowledge, dealer network and contacts. I suspect one or two Raymarine directors will have most of what is needed in their heads, a Christmas card list and on the odd memory stick and filofax. Give those directors a job and you have the Raymarine market without paying a liquidator. Company value is probably zero
 
They're on my watch list for quite some time now, and I have been waiting for signs to jump in, but that stock just keeps declining. Really an odd case though: they have a solid product, a firm customer base, they're practically market leader, they innovate, and yet they keep going down. Shows again that a good jockey can't make a bad horse win, but a bad jockey can make a great horse lose.

Google finance quotes them at 6£, with a 20% rise yesterday. Really weird, but then google finance has been known to have glitches.
 
Oh dear! Looks like I shouldnt have just bought a raymarine autopilot, if they are going to the wall, no backup!! Bugger!!
 
If there's an IP sale I'd be up for getting a group together to get some details of the OS in use on the c and e series just so that I could hack it to do some of the things I want it to do like interface to a standard networkand use networked IO.:D
 
I haven't studied the accounts but the smart move might be to try and approach the major creditors with a buy-out deal.
 
I understand, from a reliable source, that their banking arrangements have been extended to the end of March 2010, so don't write them off yet. Also £100m of debt is no great shakes for a PLC with a good track record in a high-tech sector.
 
Cerddinen said:
Perhaps you should explain the theory because I would dearly love to hear your version of it. The fact that you subscribe such a statement to economists is rather revealing in its own right. Such fanciful spin never appeared in any of the texts I have read - what did appear was APT, CAPM, CCAPM, risk-neutral valuation, binomial pricing, Black-Scholes, Arrow-Debreu state pricing, no-arbitrage. Plus a whole host of empirical tests of excess returns, excess volatility, volatility smiles, etc. etc. I guess you might be mistaking easy-reading investments guides for best-practice economics. Or even making the mistake of thinking that the authors of such books are respected economists. Neither is true.
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Stop ! I am beginning to suffer a migraine headache to hear about all the books you have read.:eek:

All I know is one simple fact.

The moment the bid price goes to zero means the story is ended, that's all.:rolleyes::D
 
me too, just brought the whole set of radar, chrtplotter, autopilot etc. £12,000 worth........im pig sick as I have not even switched them on yet.
 
hbp47 said:
me too, just brought the whole set of radar, chrtplotter, autopilot etc. £12,000 worth........im pig sick as I have not even switched them on yet.
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Havent even installed mine yet!! Still no worries, seems to be lots of folk have gone belly up in the small autopilot business, so what do you buy?

I do hope the private guys around are able to repair this stuff, my old Sharp oceanpilot lasted 40 years!
 
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And us

ccscott49 said:
Havent even installed mine yet!! Still no worries, seems to be lots of folk have gone belly up in the small autopilot business, so what do you buy?

I do hope the private guys around are able to repair this stuff, my old Sharp oceanpilot lasted 40 years!
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Had all our Ray Marine nav equipment replaced 7 weeks ago after a lightning strike and already some of it has failed and we are in Belize now but the replacement was carried out in Panama, so no one wants to know at the moment.
Good job the insurance is covering all costs?!
 
Not Black and White

gerry99 said:
This is the history of their share price :-

1 week - 6.38p (-21.63%)
1 month - 11.00p (-55.55%)
3 months - 11.00p (-55.55%)
6 months - 17.75p (-71.83%)
1 year - 17.00p (-70.59%)

So in a year they have gone from 17p to just over 6p. Interesting to see that some folks are taking some positions on the shares but the trend on the figures speak for themselves and the trend at the moment seems to be one way :(
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these figures look very bad but there is still a Market for what they Produce, they will probably just need to restructure, I would like to compare thier situation with JJB sports who came from the brink of Bankrupsy, for thier shares to rise from the bottom price by several hundred percent, a good money spinner which was obviously a gamble at the time. I am not an expert but gambles like this don't come along very often. (there is no such thing as a dead cert)
 
A dead cert...

As far as I understand it, dead certs do exist.
They are those share certificates of defunct companies which are framed and displayed by collectors because the engravings on them are so intricate, colourful, and nice to look at, but worthless.. :D
 
Why would Garmin want to take over the debt when they could pick it up for peanuts from the receiver. If Garmin do take it over I hope they sort the reliability out. Raymarine never invested enough in ironing out the software bugs.

My own experience:- plotter returned twice under warranty, autopilot display replaced four times under warranty, radar repaired twice and still not satisfactory, constant glitches with the memory settings, accuracy, illumination. The next time I'll be going to Furuno.
 
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