Raymarine - I Simply Don't Understand Them???

Dougal

Dougal

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Below is my last email to Raymarine. One of several. Anyone know how to get any kind of response from them? I want to BUY a complete autopilot system, yet they seem totally incommunicable.

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I need a new autopilot for a motor-sailor, and have some questions and concerns…

My vessel is as follows:
Beneteau Evasion 32 Long keel Motor Sailor
LOA: 32ft (9.7m)
LWL: 24ft (7.3m)
Draft: 4.5ft (1.4m)
Disp: 12676lbs (5750kg)
Dual steering positions; Outside tiller directly attached to heavily angled rudder stock. Salon wheel steering, connected via chain and cable.

Current Autopilot: Navico WP5000 (VERY powerful, but too slow to respond) plus HP5000 hand programmer. The drive motor is NOT mounted to a pedestal, but to the same internal bulkhead the wheel is mounted on.

The boat is notorious for handling problems;
1) Almost impossible to eliminate weather helm
2) Large 3 bladed prop and keel mounted (unbalanced) rudder, causing heavy prop wash on one side of rudder. Much higher force is required turning to port when under power.

Looking on your website, which is not easy to use when trying to work out exactly what’s needed, I believe the EV-100 wheel pilot is the system that would probably be specified for this boat. However, having seen the EV1 in action several times, I am concerned the unit will constantly ‘trip out’, given the force often required to steer the boat. Can you please elaborate on this feature?

There is no room to fit any kind of below deck autopilot.

Can this unit be mounted to a bulkhead in the same way?

Also, having two steering positions, is there any kind of remote control unit I can use when outside? Or can the control head made to be portable?

This is the third time I’ve contacted Raymarine to ask questions about autopilots. I’ve emailed twice, without reply, and tried (without success) to speak to an advisor by phone. I’m beginning to wonder if Raymarine actually has a customer service!
 
European sales support is primarily (if not totally) provided by the dealer network. You'll likely get a lot further by talking to one of the UK main dealers

My immediate reaction, speaking professionally, is that I'd be very reluctant to specify the EV-100 wheel pilot give your info above. Although your boat is well within the displacement limit, the drive on the wheel pilot isn't all that powerful and may well struggle

Nor would I be enthusiastic about the Evolution tiller pilot for that matter, for exactly the same reason

I realise you reckon there's no room below deck but I'd be looking very hard at the motor drive options (linear, rotary or hydraulic, depending on the system connecting the wheel steering to the tiller) to see if there was any possible way to go that route

Oh and yes, there is a wirless remote available, two actually. The S-100 is a basic remote, the S-200 gives more info and features
 
It is possible to mount a Raymarine wheel drive with a bulkhead mounted wheel, but I'm quite sure it's not going to be fast or powerful enough for you, especially with the extra drag of linkage to a tiller. I know the Evasion 32. The only thing I can think of to give a proper powerful and fast AP is to somehow attach a linear cable drive to a bracket on a modified rudder head, maybe even sticking out backwards. Maybe Octopus RS, motor inside, just a cable outside?
 
I don't know the Evasion 32 I'm afraid! What is the steering mechanism between the wheel and the rudder? It's the most promising place to "splice in" an autopilot drive
 
I'd second the advice against the rattly plastic Raymarine wheel drive - it's slow, underpowered, tends to wear quickly, and every one I've ever encountered has needed a loop of bungee or line to hold the lever in the engaged position.

I don't know the Evasion 32, but I don't see why it should be especially hard to fit a below-decks drive. Normally I'm a big fan of the direct linear drive on its own stub tiller, because it gives you immediate backup steering in the event that the cable mechanism fails, but since you already have a tiller that's much less important. So you could also fit a sprocket drive acting on the main cables or on its own separate set, or even a hydraulic set (though that's probably unnecessary complication).

I've found a couple of pics of the aft end of the Evasion cockpit, from which it's apparent where the rudder stock runs. But if you're able to get a few pics of the inside of those two aft lockers and the existing steering mechanism, that would help a lot in advising how a drive might be fitted.

Pete
 
prv said:
I'd second the advice against the rattly plastic Raymarine wheel drive - it's slow, underpowered, tends to wear quickly, and every one I've ever encountered has needed a loop of bungee or line to hold the lever in the engaged position.

I don't know the Evasion 32, but I don't see why it should be especially hard to fit a below-decks drive. Normally I'm a big fan of the direct linear drive on its own stub tiller, because it gives you immediate backup steering in the event that the cable mechanism fails, but since you already have a tiller that's much less important. So you could also fit a sprocket drive acting on the main cables or on its own separate set, or even a hydraulic set (though that's probably unnecessary complication).

I've found a couple of pics of the aft end of the Evasion cockpit, from which it's apparent where the rudder stock runs. But if you're able to get a few pics of the inside of those two aft lockers and the existing steering mechanism, that would help a lot in advising how a drive might be fitted.

Pete
Click to expand...
Hi Pete and thanks.
Alas, the boat is in France, and I wont get there to until May, so no pics. The current setup is a massive heavy chain and sprocket behind the wheel, connected to 5mm s/s wire to the rudder mechanism.
I guess this AP is going to cost more than I've bargained for:-(
 
Dougal said:
The current setup is a massive heavy chain and sprocket behind the wheel, connected to 5mm s/s wire to the rudder mechanism.
I guess this AP is going to cost more than I've bargained for:-(
Click to expand...

'Fraid so

I think you need, in that case, to be looking at a Type 1 rotary drive with an ACU-200 corepack with suitable drive sprockets and chain etc. (The sprockets are available from Raymarine main dealers, who can also advise on the correct sizes)

It'll cost a fair bit more than a wheelpilot and the physical installation can be, um, an interesting challenge!
 
Bru said:
the physical installation can be, um, an interesting challenge!
Click to expand...

It looks like this is one of those boats (like many motorboats) where the back of the wheelhouse helm position is right in the saloon, so there's probably not a lot of space available behind it. Hence I'm still curious to know what's available at the rudder end of the system. Maybe one of those push/pull cable drives (though I've never seen one in person) with the motor under one of the cockpit side benches and the cable coming round the corner to act on a stub tiller under the aft bench? It seems like this or a straightforward linear drive would be in the way of one of those aft locker lids - but wouldn't the existing steering cables be there too? Hence the desire to see what's what under the stern bench.

As you say, any decent option is going to be more expensive than the rattly wheel drive - but it will also work :)

Pete
 
prv said:
It looks like this is one of those boats (like many motorboats) where the back of the wheelhouse helm position is right in the saloon, so there's probably not a lot of space available behind it.
Click to expand...

Doesn't need a lot of room to get a double sprocket in (the binnacle on our Westerly 33 has a double sprocket and two chains for example), its finding space to mount the motor below that may be the problem but looking at the drawings I've found on google it looks feasible

prv said:
As you say, any decent option is going to be more expensive than the rattly wheel drive - but it will also work :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, well I'm risking the wheelpilot to replace the ancient Cetrex 'cos there's a massive cost difference I can't afford :(
 
Agree with the others. Avoid the wheel pilot as although your boat is within the limits, the drive is a very suspect bit of kit. The electronics will work well but the drive does not have the power nor reaction speed to use it, particularly as you describe your boat as difficult to steer. Half of me says that whatever you do will not be brilliant simply because the boat is heavy and poorly balanced. Autopilots depend on an easily steered boat in the first place.

The big problem as you realise is the drive. It may well be that you could get a drive direct to the rudder stick/quadrant - there are more types than Raymarine offer such as the Octopus drive that will accept commands from the Raymarine electronics. However you might consider the Lewmar electric motor that fits at the base of the pedestal and drives by a chain to you existing chain drive. This was commonly fitted several models of Bavaria and I have it on my new 33 where the pedestal is almost directly above the rudder stock and there is no room for liner drive. Works well, although driven by a Garmin system. Will work with a Raymarine.

However, as you know none of these potential solutions is cheap - thick end of £3k even if you fit yourself. You might also do some research on the basic systems still made in US. No sophisticate electronics but robust drives to wheel steering. The name escapes me at the moment but a bit of US orientated googling should find it.
 
Tranona said:
However, as you know none of these potential solutions is cheap - thick end of £3k even if you fit yourself. You might also do some research on the basic systems still made in US. No sophisticate electronics but robust drives to wheel steering. The name escapes me at the moment but a bit of US orientated googling should find it.
Click to expand...
This is the one you're thinking about I'm guessing
http://cptautopilot.com
 
Dougal said:
Below is my last email to Raymarine. One of several. Anyone know how to get any kind of response from them? I want to BUY a complete autopilot system, yet they seem totally incommunicable.
Click to expand...

What address did you use and how long ago? I'd be surprised if their UK people were the sort to be sufficiently concerned by customer service to have someone answering questions between christmas and new year.

The contact form under "ask raymarine" on their website usually works unless it's something out of the ordinary, and your question seems fairly straight forward.

If you don't get traction post a "what does it take to get a reply from you people?" comment on their Facebook page (with a one line summary rather than the full question). Past experience suggests that it's someone's job to be concerned about negative publicity on social media.
 
I've used both an email address i found by trawling their website, and also an online form, which i would expect to get a response from, but not even an auto "we will reply within....." Both UK addresses.

I'll try to upload a pick of behind the wheel (with crappy old wiring erased for simplicity), and a generic type pic of the rudder end...
chain.jpgcables.jpg
 
I have Raymarine instrumentation + AP and wouldn't consider it again. That's also the opinion of several other owners I have sailed with. As one told me, he know's several people who have changed from Raymarine to Garmin, B&G, etc but no one who has gone the other way.
 
Dougal said:
I'll try to upload a pick of behind the wheel (with crappy old wiring erased for simplicity), and a generic type pic of the rudder end...
Click to expand...

Thanks for trying :)

But we know what a chain sprocket and a rudder quadrant look like generically, what matters is the surroundings and the space available to install the kit. Obviously with the boat in France, if you don't have any suitable pictures then you don't have them.

Is the quadrant in the locker under that aft bench? If so, does it (and the wires) take up lots of the space, so that adding a linear drive in the same area won't appreciably limit your storage? Or, since it seems a little odd to me to have locker lids into the steering space, is the quadrant actually under the cockpit sole?

Pete
 
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