Raymarine Ghosts

[syfuga]

We have an annoying problem with our Raymarine ST6000 Autopilot system, part of a conventional SeaTalk network.

For no apparent reason, the autohelm will emit 4 rapid, quiet beeps, and goes into Standby mode. This can be guaranteed to happen at the most inconvenient moment, but occurs perhaps 3/4 times a day, sometimes less often. We have been unable to tie it to any event or circumstance, and has occurred throughout the 9 years we have owned the boat.

Raymarine suggested power supply, so I installed heavier cabling, and a relay to switch it from the control panel. No change. Others have questioned the course computer, or the compass.

Has anyone had a similar experience, and what was the solution?

We upgraded the radar last year to digital. We have electric primary winches. Whenever one of these is operated, the radar switches off, and has to be restarted through its warm up sequence. Is this electromagnetic interference, or perhaps sensitivity to spikes on the power supply. Suggested solutions on a postcard, please, or preferably here..

 

[pvb]

The radar switching off when an electric winch is operated is likely to be caused by a voltage drop. What's the Ah capacity of your batteries? Might need to increase the battery bank to cope with high load items; alternatively, you could add a dedicated electronics supply.

Haven't a clue about your autopilot quirk.

 

[SAMYL]

I have heard of interference to the autopilot computer from a mobile phone which was placed in a holder on the opposite side of a bulkhead from the control head.
Every time a call or text came in the autopilot did funny things.

 

[syfuga]

The batteries are 2 x 260AH AGM.

I am considering putting in an additional battery for electronics, isolated by a diode. Seems a faf if there is a simpler solution, and if its emr interference stopping the radar it won't solve that problem.

 

[Boathook]

Seems like a wiring problem in that the winches are taking to much power either from the batteries or through the wires. I had the same problem with my autohelm and it was the water pump causing 'electrical' surges. I had to rewire part of the circuit with even bigger cables to get over this.

 

[rotrax]

Our Raymarine autopilot exibits similar traits from time to time. After talking to Raymarine at a show three years ago, they had never heard of this fault. Talking to other Raymarine equiped sailors, most have experienced it. I would dearly like an answer, if there is one. We have in excess of 450AH agm batteries on our boat and the 80w solar panel keeps up very well.

 

[pvb]

The batteries are 2 x 260AH AGM.

I am considering putting in an additional battery for electronics, isolated by a diode. Seems a faf if there is a simpler solution, and if its emr interference stopping the radar it won't solve that problem.

520Ah should be plenty to prevent undue voltage drop when the winch is operated. In which case, you need to check/upgrade the wiring to the radar, ideally wiring it back to as close to the batteries as possible.

 

[maby]

Check the simple things first - voltage drop seems the most likely and I would check the quality of the connections at the battery terminals and earth points before you go stripping out the wiring and replacing it with the sort of cable that would make the National Grid jealous! Make sure that your battery terminals are nice and clean - remove any corrosion and get down to shiny metal, then apply a little grease and tighten it all up. Check earth terminals as well - a boat is a hostile environment for electrical connections and they can corrode rapidly.

 

[RupertW]

Our Raymarine autopilot exibits similar traits from time to time. After talking to Raymarine at a show three years ago, they had never heard of this fault. Talking to other Raymarine equiped sailors, most have experienced it. I would dearly like an answer, if there is one. We have in excess of 450AH agm batteries on our boat and the 80w solar panel keeps up very well.

Each one I've owned on different boats has had the problem at one time or another. It's always been the power supply. We did often run out of battery power on one boat (a single old 60ah domestic supply, a frisky boat doing 60+ hour autohelmed sailing trips regularly and a tiny 5 gall fuel tank which was a pain to fill so kept engine hours down).

However every other time there was plenty of juice in the batteries but a voltage drop at one of the connections as dirty, loose, frayed, corroded or whatever. Cleaning and or changing the connection sorted out the problems, mostly until we sold that particular boat.

 

[penfold]

If you are able, experiment with supplying the winch relay direct from the batteries with jump leads(may have to borrow long ones). If that works you need separate wiring, if it doesn't you may need a separate power supply from battery upwards(borrow a battery and try with the jump leads); for electronics that's not too arduous provided the radar can be fed from the main supply. The amount of separation needs testing to see if the electronic supply battery can be charged simply or needs the expense of an inverter/charger to provide isolation.

 

[rotrax]

Each one I've owned on different boats has had the problem at one time or another. It's always been the power supply. We did often run out of battery power on one boat (a single old 60ah domestic supply, a frisky boat doing 60+ hour autohelmed sailing trips regularly and a tiny 5 gall fuel tank which was a pain to fill so kept engine hours down).

However every other time there was plenty of juice in the batteries but a voltage drop at one of the connections as dirty, loose, frayed, corroded or whatever. Cleaning and or changing the connection sorted out the problems, mostly until we sold that particular boat.

Thank you for the reply and advice. I have inspected all and renewed a couple of connections at the course computer and ram ends and overhauled the ram motor. I will look at the supply end now. I will post if it fixes it-but dont hold your breath.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Our Raymarine autopilot exibits similar traits from time to time. After talking to Raymarine at a show three years ago, they had never heard of this fault.

Oh yes they have, but won't admit to it. Seatalk messages contain little error checking data (unlike NMEA). All Seatalk connected equipment does funny things now and then, like units on instruments changing, maximum values going to huge numbers and autopilots losing the plot. Any interference is likely to cause this randomly, like mobile phone signals. There's not much to be done about it.

 

[paulbowen8]

I had a similar autopilot problem although mine used to beep 4 times and come up with the Shallow Alarm spuriously. I fitted a decent earth cable from the course computer, which had never been fitted from new, and haven't had the problem since. In the mean time I had bought a brand new autopilot head, so if anyone wants one......

 

[syfuga]

Some food for thought

Thanks for some interesting suggestions.. The winch cabling is all heavy stuff, and the two winches are wired separately with their own fuses. The radar supply is from a separate supply wired back to the distribution board.

Its difficult to measure an instantaneous voltage dip caused by a starting current, unfortunately.

I have always suspected the fridge or freezer compressors, as they cut in randomly, for the autohelm problem - but it may be nothing to do with this.

Maybe an independent Raymarine battery might be the answer isolated from the other services.

 

[GrahamHR]

I had a problem with a Navman plotter which would always switch off when the engine was started, the Garmin Fishfinder fed from the same fusebox didn't. All the standard wiring as in good condition. I sorted it out with a small 12V rechargeable battery used in domestic alarms and a diode, connected to the plotter. it's still working as it should after a few years now ( and being left unattended over the Winter months). This small battery maintains around 12.6V when the starter is causing a voltage drop.

edit; I just remembered I posted about this potential "cure" in late 2009, the alarm battery had been fitted since April 2006, so it's now 6 years old and still going strong

 

[maby]

I had a similar autopilot problem although mine used to beep 4 times and come up with the Shallow Alarm spuriously. I fitted a decent earth cable from the course computer, which had never been fitted from new, and haven't had the problem since. In the mean time I had bought a brand new autopilot head, so if anyone wants one......

That could be interesting - which head did you buy? I'm in the process of purchasing a Raymarine AP - but I want the full graphics P70 head, not the seven-segment display version.

 

[syfuga]

Raymarine problems

Thanks for the suggestions.

As far as the radar was concerned, the problem is now fixed, and was a wiring issue. When the original radar was fitted, under the boat's original ownership, both the quite substantial cables were wired back to the radar circuit breaker in the positive feed. Unfortunately, the negative connected into the light daisy-chained negative line required for the led indicator lamps within the breakers!

On moving, then fitting a new radar, I assumed that the cables feeding the original one were appropriate! There was in fact a total voltage drop under load of nearly a volt, made worse of course by the starting current of the winch motors.

Regarding the 'standby' issue, a Raymarine guru with 20 years experience consulted recently recalled a problem with the old course computers, where a remote joystick connection, when absent, could make the autopilot go into a crash turn. A 10K resistor fitted across the connections was the recommended fix for this, forcing the remote pilot off. This did not fix our problem, but we have experienced the odd one or two crash turns in the past.

Someone mentioned to me that they had a similar problem with loose Seatalk cabling that had this effect. We are not aware of any, and the problem will occur if the boat is stationary with the autopilot simply engaged, and even we believe, when in "standby" (beeps only, obviously).

Presumably the poster above who referred to an earth meant negative? The course computer does not have an rf earth as such? This boat's rf earth is separate from the negative line.

Any more suggestions gratefully received..