Raymarine AIS650 woes

[iapetus]

The boat I bought last year included a Raymarine AIS650 transponder, oddly not connected to the (Raymarine c97) MFD, probably because the marine installer was not versed into Seatalk NG networks (or lazy, or...).

I don't like having unused hi-tech gear on board, so I dived into that sea of cables, made the necessary connections, all complete with uber-expensive STNG terminators, only to find that said AIS was losing the GPS fix from time to time.

Using the ProAIS2 software from Raymarine, I could verify that the GPS starts acquiring satellites, gets the fix, then intermittently loses all sat signals, then starts again the sat acquisition.

When it occurs, the MFD starts complaining about "lost AIS" (displaying an alert that won't go away unless someone dismisses it on the screen), and always at the worst possible time (ie. at speed, with 100s of boats threatening to hit us at any moment, or in the middle of the marina)

Could the problem come from either a broken GPS antenna (it uses the passive one provided with the AIS), or a bad cable? Any idea how I could explore the issue systematically before calling some RM technician?

Thanks!

 

[lpdsn]

... probably because the marine installer was not versed into Seatalk NG networks (or lazy, or...).

There are a few whinges I have about STNG, but to be fair to them Raymarine have designed it so the average six year old could install it. I hope the bloke didn't claim to be a professional.

I don't like having unused hi-tech gear on board, so I dived into that sea of cables, made the necessary connections, all complete with uber-expensive STNG terminators, only to find that said AIS was losing the GPS fix from time to time.

I don't know the kit, but does it have an internal GPS or is the GPS position fed into it over NMEA0183 or NMEA2000?

 

[pvb]

Loss of the 650's GPS signal would only affect the transmission of your AIS data, it wouldn't affect the reception of other vessels' AIS data, which is what triggers the "lost AIS" message on the c97. So perhaps check the 650's VHF antenna connections first.

 

[iapetus]

Thanks to both of you,

There are a few whinges I have about STNG, but to be fair to them Raymarine have designed it so the average six year old could install it. I hope the bloke didn't claim to be a professional.

I'm afraid he did, and still does.
STNG is indeed really simple to fiddle with, at least once you get used to Ray's terminology and have the will to spend a ridiculous amount of cash in 120 ohms terminators.

I don't know the kit, but does it have an internal GPS or is the GPS position fed into it over NMEA0183 or NMEA2000?

The GPS antenna is said to be passive (Raymarine's words), so it's only connected by a coaxial cable via a TNC connector. I think the unit doesn't accept any other GPS input, it seems it has to be standalone, by some standard.

Loss of the 650's GPS signal would only affect the transmission of your AIS data, it wouldn't affect the reception of other vessels' AIS data, which is what triggers the "lost AIS" message on the c97. So perhaps check the 650's VHF antenna connections first.

I surely will! (WD40 at hand). But I also read that the "AIS connection lost" message on the MFD was a bit misleading, in that it doesn't necessarily mean that AIS was lost, but also that the unit may be rebooting or resetting somehow.

 

[KevinT1]

Where is the GPS mushroom mounted ?

I would suggest that because it can't get a good fix and then it reboots then that is why you are getting the alarm on the MFD. And being cynical the reason why the installer hadn't connected it could be because it continually alarmed..... Seatalk NG is pure plug and play - I don't buy into the "was not versed into Seatalk NG networks (or lazy, or...). "


You could try updating the software - to do that Seatalk NG needs to be connected to both MFD and the AIS650 and you can either download onto a memory card or connect via Wifi - takes minutes with a good connection

If that all fails I would take the AIS650 to a Raymarine Agent and ask them to bench test it - mine failed after 30 minutes ( from new ) and I spent money and time replacing a perfectly good VHF Antenna before working out it was the AIS 650

Kevin

 

[pvb]

Where is the GPS mushroom mounted ?

I would suggest that because it can't get a good fix and then it reboots then that is why you are getting the alarm on the MFD.

As I suggested earlier, surely the AIS650's GPS is only needed for transmitting? As such, if it were to fail, the receive function should continue as normal. If the c97 is claiming it's lost AIS data, that's down to the receive function of the AIS650. Your suggestion of getting the AIS650 bench tested is a good one.

 

[dunedin]

Interesting. We had an AIS650 fitted in 2015 and it has also been plagued by intermittent Lost GPS followed by Lost AIS messages - only very brief but which infuriatingly causes the Waypoint Goto to disappear and/or wake us up if on AnchorWatch mode. So very interested if you track down the cause.
Ours has the supplied GPS antenna fitted on deck so signal should not be an issue. VHF comes in via an AIS100 splitter.

All Raymarine said was "update the software". Did that, and perhaps marginally better. But even on the latest AIS and Lighthouse versions (as of Feb 2017) still get these error messages.
Interestingly, ours now always does this typically 5-15 minutes after initial startup, then usually now settles down and doesn't recur. Also never in the first 5 minutes or so. Odd

 

[iapetus]

Where is the GPS mushroom mounted ?

I would suggest that because it can't get a good fix and then it reboots then that is why you are getting the alarm on the MFD. And being cynical the reason why the installer hadn't connected it could be because it continually alarmed..... Seatalk NG is pure plug and play - I don't buy into the "was not versed into Seatalk NG networks (or lazy, or...). "


You could try updating the software - to do that Seatalk NG needs to be connected to both MFD and the AIS650 and you can either download onto a memory card or connect via Wifi - takes minutes with a good connection

If that all fails I would take the AIS650 to a Raymarine Agent and ask them to bench test it - mine failed after 30 minutes ( from new ) and I spent money and time replacing a perfectly good VHF Antenna before working out it was the AIS 650

Kevin

The GPS antenna is mounted on the (fixed) arch, approx 2 meters or so above the deck (open Med boat). The cable seems to run inside the arch so visual inspection isn't an option unless I disassemble the whole thing.

I confess the same cynical idea briefly crossed my mind, as I couldn't understand why on earth a so-called professional installer wouldn't finish an otherwise pretty easy job. Well, actually the STNG network was missing a lot: the ST1 autopilot was not connected to the MFD, not were the old ST6001 Tridata and ST60 head. I got that running more or less smoothly.

The AIS650 firmware is already up-to-date (v1.15, October 2015), I tried and apply all updates I could find when I bought the boat last year.

@KevinT1 & pvb: thanks. I don't know how the AIS650 handles GPS fix losses; it may be that it decides to reboot whenever the error occurs but that sounds like an odd behavior software-wise, so I'll surely bring the box to the local RM Agent.

@dunedin: I'll keep you posted

 

[iapetus]

Quick update: I was able to get access to the (winterized) boat, unmounted the AIS650 while leaving all cables attached, powered up the system and left it on for a couple hours. It worked with no "lost AIS" messages whatsoever :ambivalence:

After resetting the unit, I could see why it wasn't working properly: there are a bunch of Volvo-labeled cables that, once the lid was put back in place, would apply serious pressure on the GPS and ANT cables. That, and probably the boat motion, eventually caused a loose connection in the unit baseplates.

So a bit of soldering and rearranging the cables in an orderly fashion did the trick for now. I'm not that confident it will hold, though, but it will have to do for the upcoming season.

Another terrible job from the so-called professional marine installer, it seems...

 

[rogerthebodger]

Another terrible job from the so-called professional marine installer, it seems...

The term "Professional" only means that he does work for payment. It does not indicate the quality of the work and sometimes it means the reverse as the so called professional can make more money by doing a quick and sloppy job.

 

[tudorsailor]

I have the same AIS transponder fitted at the same time as I upgraded to a C125 multifunction display 2015. The C125 has its own GPS aerial inside and the AIS transponder has its own GPS (somewhere)
I too get occasional lost GPS fix on the MFD. I assumed this a problem with the MFD and not the AIS. I will need to look more carefully next time it happens
In addition, the MFD turns itself off and reboots on occasion. Not every day. Maybe once in a week of sailing

I will bookmark thus thread and update when it happens again

TudorSailor

 

[iapetus]

@tudorsailor: since 2015 there has been a couple software updates for both the c125 (not the "classic" C120, right?) and the AIS650, one of which solved unexpected reboots of the AIS unit (if I'm not mistaken). If you happen to have a STNG-ST1 converter in the loop (for example to connect a legacy Raymarine autopilot), there are recent updates available as well.

 

[pvb]

I have the same AIS transponder fitted at the same time as I upgraded to a C125 multifunction display 2015. The C125 has its own GPS aerial inside and the AIS transponder has its own GPS (somewhere)
I too get occasional lost GPS fix on the MFD. I assumed this a problem with the MFD and not the AIS. I will need to look more carefully next time it happens
In addition, the MFD turns itself off and reboots on occasion. Not every day. Maybe once in a week of sailing

Your c125 should by default use the internal GPS receiver. In this mode, it will ignore other GPS data which may be present on NMEA. You can turn the internal GPS off in the set-up menu.

The turning off and rebooting may be the result of a dodgy connection somewhere in the power supply. It would be worth double-checking connections, and checking the voltage actually reaching the display.

 

[KevinT1]

In addition, the MFD turns itself off and reboots on occasion. Not every day. Maybe once in a week of sailing

Interesting - I have a E95 that turns itself off and reboots, this has happened a number of times after a long sail and typically when we were relying on the plotter ( coming into Salcombe, entry to Portland, anchoring ).
Raymarine suggested that all events were logged in the plotter but I could never see any events

TudorSailor - would be very interested if you have any success in solving it

Kevin

 

[tudorsailor]

@tudorsailor: since 2015 there has been a couple software updates for both the c125 (not the "classic" C120, right?) and the AIS650, one of which solved unexpected reboots of the AIS unit (if I'm not mistaken). If you happen to have a STNG-ST1 converter in the loop (for example to connect a legacy Raymarine autopilot), there are recent updates available as well.

Thanks iapetus

Yes I have the modern C125 MFD with wifi etc. I have updated the Lighthouse, but not the AIS650. I do have a converter too as I have the original autopilot. I will investigate how to do all the updates when on board in a couple of week (in Gouvia).

I will feed back!

TudorSaior