NealB
Well-Known Member
Hi Bru ..... I'd be up for a spot of 'riddling' if you'd like a Carruthers to your Davis
Edit: I mean that I'd love to come and play, if you need crew.
Ray Sand Channel
- Thread starter stevebrassett
- Start date
Hi Bru ..... I'd be up for a spot of 'riddling' if you'd like a Carruthers to your Davis
Edit: I mean that I'd love to come and play, if you need crew.
Bru
Well-Known Member
I doubt I'll get a chance to investigate this year, we've barely scratched the surface of the work we want to get done on Pagan and paying work keeps getting in the way! (Not that I'm complaining)
If we get out at all it'll probably be for a few days in August and I suspect the Admiral will have plans that don't involve messing about in a dinghy playing surveyors and explorers!
rgarside
Well-Known Member
No news of a short cut, but here's a set of soundings across the Raysand close by the buoys last Sunday, just after the morning HW.
The least sounding was 1.6m below the transducer, and the transducer is 0.3m below the surface.
The tide ht at Whitaker Beacon at the time should have been about 3.9m. So I guess that should correspond to a drying ht of about 2m.
View attachment LOG00015raysand.txt
The least sounding was 1.6m below the transducer, and the transducer is 0.3m below the surface.
The tide ht at Whitaker Beacon at the time should have been about 3.9m. So I guess that should correspond to a drying ht of about 2m.
View attachment LOG00015raysand.txt
Bru
Well-Known Member
You're on Neal, when I get the chance
Come to think of it, getting a crew together and doing it when Jane isn't on board isn't a bad idea at all. It's not going to be exactly fun for her, she's about as interested in the notion as I am in the round ball game
NealB
Well-Known Member
You're on Neal, when I get the chance
Come to think of it, getting a crew together and doing it when Jane isn't on board isn't a bad idea at all. It's not going to be exactly fun for her, she's about as interested in the notion as I am in the round ball game
Give me a shout when you fancy giving it a go.
baldyash
Well-Known Member
Came across today on the 1degree and so min. 3.3m on a 5.00m At Burnham/Bradwell about 3/4 hr. Before high tide.
Poecheng
Well-Known Member
Just done a bit of nav by Google Earth.
If you go on the historical data then most of it is no use or blanked out over the area we want to see. However, there is a good pic on 4 July 2014 showing the banks/sand/sea.
You will find the lat long in the bottom corner and it is clear that the Ray Sand bouy is pretty close to a photo "Buxey Seals".
To the left of this is a largish cock-shape sand (the 'sand') and the Ray Sand route avoids the tip of the this sand.
To the left of this sand is deeper water ONCE you have gone over the banks nearer the Crouch.
So IF you could get over the banks then you could depart North East ish at about 51.38.13N and 00.57.40E and head off at about 020 degrees True and end up in "deep" water. The departure point would be about 1.65nm earlier (when coming out of the Crouch) than the Ray Sand bouy - which is useful.
The big question therefore is whether you can get over the bank at that point and carry on for what looks like the best part of a mile. Since the RS channel itself is hardly deep and this satellite shot shows it all as "deep" water so heaven knows what it is like on the route I have mentioned above
If you go on the historical data then most of it is no use or blanked out over the area we want to see. However, there is a good pic on 4 July 2014 showing the banks/sand/sea.
You will find the lat long in the bottom corner and it is clear that the Ray Sand bouy is pretty close to a photo "Buxey Seals".
To the left of this is a largish cock-shape sand (the 'sand') and the Ray Sand route avoids the tip of the this sand.
To the left of this sand is deeper water ONCE you have gone over the banks nearer the Crouch.
So IF you could get over the banks then you could depart North East ish at about 51.38.13N and 00.57.40E and head off at about 020 degrees True and end up in "deep" water. The departure point would be about 1.65nm earlier (when coming out of the Crouch) than the Ray Sand bouy - which is useful.
The big question therefore is whether you can get over the bank at that point and carry on for what looks like the best part of a mile. Since the RS channel itself is hardly deep and this satellite shot shows it all as "deep" water so heaven knows what it is like on the route I have mentioned above
Bru
Well-Known Member
That's a really useful find Poecheng. Been having a play with the contrast and sketching in the buoys and lat long grid ...
A number of things catch my eye
Firstly, looking at the known route around the 1deg meridian, there's a clear indication of a ridge on the North side of the Buxey which I seem to recall we've had discussions in the past about whether it's still there as far as the current route across the sands is concerned
But much more interesting in the context of this discussion is that once I jacked the contrast up, there's some suggestive indications of a rill between the Ray Sand channel and close inshore of Holliwell point. This jives with having more than once seen local boats (motor, fishing and sailing) taking a very close inshore route
Slightly further East, between buoys 3 and 4 (shown) is a suggestion of a channel behind a spit or island of drying sand and a hint of a flat area behind and to the East of it. This, I believe, is the area where I've seen a channel to clear water behind a bank of sand. In 2014 it didn't seem to lead to much and indeed I hadn't noticed it. Last year it became noticeable and seemed quite extensive
The light blue line indicates the course of the possible rill. The dark blue line and ellipse indicate the probable location of the channel and pool seen last year. The red lines are traced from the charted drying height contour on the Admiralty chart
Unfortunately, the one thing we don't know is the state of the tide when the air image was taken (it's unusual and useful that the tide was clearly well out, they seem to try and take coastal air photos when the tide is in which is no use to us sailors at all!). I doubt it's at low water but it's surely less than half tide I reckon
The possible rill suggests that there is some tidal scouring occurring between the Crouch and the Ray Sand channel. Whether it will ever open up into a permanent deep water channel only time will tell. But it may well offer a shortcut for an hour or two either side of high water
Definitely grounds for a bit of exploration I think! It'll be a "Swallows and Amazons" adventure - landing on strange sands, exploring and mapping and all that
All I need to do now is sort out some new ground tackle (the gear that came with the boat is fit only for the scrapyard!), service the outboard and pump up the RIB. Oh and replace the cutlass bearing, sort out the rudder bearings and replace the glow plugs on the engine. And pick a flat calm day with spring tides (need springs to get off our mud berth!).
I'm tempted to cobble up a depth sounder and data recorder in the RIB too (it's not a big RIB, it's only a little Avon, but it'll do the job). Might be an arduino or raspi project for the winter ('cos I frankly can't see this happening this year. We haven't even started on our refit yet 'cos paying work comes first and we've got a big and expensive heap of stuff to fit into Pagan sitting idle in the container waiting for the time to be available to get it all installed)
A number of things catch my eye
Firstly, looking at the known route around the 1deg meridian, there's a clear indication of a ridge on the North side of the Buxey which I seem to recall we've had discussions in the past about whether it's still there as far as the current route across the sands is concerned
But much more interesting in the context of this discussion is that once I jacked the contrast up, there's some suggestive indications of a rill between the Ray Sand channel and close inshore of Holliwell point. This jives with having more than once seen local boats (motor, fishing and sailing) taking a very close inshore route
Slightly further East, between buoys 3 and 4 (shown) is a suggestion of a channel behind a spit or island of drying sand and a hint of a flat area behind and to the East of it. This, I believe, is the area where I've seen a channel to clear water behind a bank of sand. In 2014 it didn't seem to lead to much and indeed I hadn't noticed it. Last year it became noticeable and seemed quite extensive
The light blue line indicates the course of the possible rill. The dark blue line and ellipse indicate the probable location of the channel and pool seen last year. The red lines are traced from the charted drying height contour on the Admiralty chart
Unfortunately, the one thing we don't know is the state of the tide when the air image was taken (it's unusual and useful that the tide was clearly well out, they seem to try and take coastal air photos when the tide is in which is no use to us sailors at all!). I doubt it's at low water but it's surely less than half tide I reckon
The possible rill suggests that there is some tidal scouring occurring between the Crouch and the Ray Sand channel. Whether it will ever open up into a permanent deep water channel only time will tell. But it may well offer a shortcut for an hour or two either side of high water
Definitely grounds for a bit of exploration I think! It'll be a "Swallows and Amazons" adventure - landing on strange sands, exploring and mapping and all that
All I need to do now is sort out some new ground tackle (the gear that came with the boat is fit only for the scrapyard!), service the outboard and pump up the RIB. Oh and replace the cutlass bearing, sort out the rudder bearings and replace the glow plugs on the engine. And pick a flat calm day with spring tides (need springs to get off our mud berth!).
I'm tempted to cobble up a depth sounder and data recorder in the RIB too (it's not a big RIB, it's only a little Avon, but it'll do the job). Might be an arduino or raspi project for the winter ('cos I frankly can't see this happening this year. We haven't even started on our refit yet 'cos paying work comes first and we've got a big and expensive heap of stuff to fit into Pagan sitting idle in the container waiting for the time to be available to get it all installed)
Serin
Well-Known Member
I believe there is a pretty much intact German bomber out on the Dengie Flats. I was told about it by Alan Bird, the oysterman who has been responsible for most of the moorings in Mersea. Apparently it tends to appear and disappear as the sands shift.
I've been wondering about the Ray - haven't been down that way for a while. This kind of thread is really useful.
I've been wondering about the Ray - haven't been down that way for a while. This kind of thread is really useful.
tidclacy
Well-Known Member
Interesting bit of history
http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1txgz/EastCoastSailingECS0/resources/content/26.swf
http://content.yudu.com/Library/A1txgz/EastCoastSailingECS0/resources/content/26.swf
simonfraser
Well-Known Member
why not x in the area top right hand side of the image, rather than over the sand ?
still way shorter than going round to where the gunfleet wind turbines are.
still way shorter than going round to where the gunfleet wind turbines are.
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kayenox
Well-Known Member
Thanks to all who posted in this thread - gave me the confidence to do this yesterday in Mystic Tide, which draws 1.9m. Followed the same route as above, about an hour before high water Holliwell Point, coming South, heading to the Crouch and keeping safe water marks on starboard side, no more than 100m away. Tide height would have been roughly 4.5metres and we never dropped below 3.1m depth (so leaving a safe margin of 1.2metres below the keel).
Don't know what I was worried about :nonchalance:
kayenox
Well-Known Member
Anyone been across this more recently than 2016? Any noticeable difference or things to watch out for? Might want to take advantage of this shortcut in a few eeeks time again.
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
Brightlingsea to Ramsgate at HW -1 as you cross The Ray Sand & Foulness... straight line and generally a beam reach.
cueball
Well-Known Member
I like the idea of crossing Foulness, now I draw less than 1m I'm going to give it a try. what route do you take?
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
Crouch No 3 and go for it..
The northern side rises very sharply then once it gets to the top is is almost level. Approach very slowly and carefully..... otherwise you can end up like the chap we saw on Saturday..
Suggest it is a good idea to look at it when passing at LW. you do get a good idea of what to expect. and you may see some seals.
The northern side rises very sharply then once it gets to the top is is almost level. Approach very slowly and carefully..... otherwise you can end up like the chap we saw on Saturday..
Suggest it is a good idea to look at it when passing at LW. you do get a good idea of what to expect. and you may see some seals.
kayenox
Well-Known Member
Ah - the cat that overtook us near Buxey #2 - did you hear anything back from your transmission re the grounded yacht? We were wondering g whether he had just parked a bilge keeper there over LW to watch the seals as it looked pretty deliberate and there was no sign on deck of calling for assistance.
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
No.. so I phoned them on the mobile.
He looked safe enough but I thought to call just in case.
Was it Captain Calamity?
He looked safe enough but I thought to call just in case.
Was it Captain Calamity?
cueball
Well-Known Member
Thanks Tomahawk. I've often looked when passing at low tide. Looks kind of flat, where do you come off, can you get as far down as the Blacktail or is it more Maplin middle exit?
Tomahawk
Well-Known Member
When heading for Ramsgate/Dover we head almost in a straight line for the top of Margate Sands.
Looking at the chart, it seems the numbers have changed since i last paid attention to the names. It appears to now be Crouch No 2.
We tend to detour a bit for the Maplin spit and pass just NE of MAplin BAnk. then through between West Barrow and South West Barrow, across the Knock John, again between the banks, then into the South Edinburgh, again skirting a bit to the SW to stay off the Shingles Patch
Looking at the chart, it seems the numbers have changed since i last paid attention to the names. It appears to now be Crouch No 2.
We tend to detour a bit for the Maplin spit and pass just NE of MAplin BAnk. then through between West Barrow and South West Barrow, across the Knock John, again between the banks, then into the South Edinburgh, again skirting a bit to the SW to stay off the Shingles Patch
