lw395
Well-Known Member
Yes that can be legal.
They are trucks not cars.
It can be dodgy though, especially the newer ones with softer suspension, the one on the trailer can roll a lot...
rav 4 weight 1275kg--whats the most i can tow unbraked?-help please
- Thread starter lenten
- Start date
Yes that can be legal.
They are trucks not cars.
It can be dodgy though, especially the newer ones with softer suspension, the one on the trailer can roll a lot...
fisherman
Well-Known Member
Few years back I asked a mate to lend me a trailer, I had to move a Volvo 440. Picking it up, found a three axle trailer, 1.25 tons unladen. Not to be beaten, got the 440 on it, now total 2.3 tons. Towed it to St Ives with my 740, no problem, even when a kid on a bike shot out, stopped dead. At St Ives I accidentally went down the hill to Carbis Bay. I should have unloaded the 440, but I drove back up the very steep hill, in the rain. The 440 rocked back on its suspension and started to lift the back of the 740, losing traction....had I stopped the whole 3.75 tons might have been a bit much for the brakes. I did check the legal side before I started out, but looking again it said " if you exceed the manufacturer's recommended towing weight and there is an incident the police may take a dim view".
Bru
Well-Known Member
Yep.
Nope, they're not. They're PLG (private and light goods), the same as cars and light vans of the same era
The point is that until they were forced to do so by changes in the regulations, Land Rover did not specify a maximum towing mass or a maximum train mass
Therefore it was legal to tow pretty well anything you liked. Without manufacturer specified limits large chunks of the law relating to towing could not be applied.
The effective limit for an unmodified vehicle was 3500kg because trailers above that required powered brakes (although I knew more than one Landie owner who'd fitted electric power brakes and was told of one who'd gone the whole hog and fitted air brakes)
The other niggle was the need for a tacho if the train mass exceeded 3500kg and what you were doing could be considered work (which caused some problems for volunteer groups although in the end the DVLA took a remarkably pragmatic approach to the issue)
On one point I agree entirely - it takes a skilled and experienced driver to safely tow a heavy trailer behind a 4x4. It's a different ball game to the daily commute or school run entirely
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Agree. I towed a 26ft boat from the SOF back to UK with an Austin Champ. Very short tow vehicle, with a long trailer. It had truly terrifying 'wag' on the over run if one exceeded the speeds we had figured out were OK. I am not saying we were skilled, but talk about 'on the job training' It was before the regs were in force, back in '69.
lenten
Well-Known Member
hi fisherman---i thought you had to stop on a weighbridge---but the one at the end of the a23/start of the m23 is owned by the min. of transport for checking lorry weights---you drive across it very very slowly ---your weight comes up on a big screen---best feature---its free
Bru
Well-Known Member
A problem the short wheelbase Landies are prone to. On the face of it, an 88 or 90 would appear to be an excellent tug for a big trailer but in reality the 109 / 110 is a much better tow vehicle
Champagne Murphy
Well-Known Member
So what are the rules for a braked trailer?
Avocet
Well-Known Member
On a mass-produced and type approved car, it will be part of the type approval and listed on the car's EC "Certificate of Conformity" and in the handbook. The manufacturer will do various type approval tests and determine the maximum weight it can tow and the maximum nose weight on the towball. The second weight number on the cars VIN plate (sometimes called "chassis plate") is the weight that the car and trailer combined cannot exceed. Provided the car isn't loaded to such an extent that you exceed that, you can tow up to the maximum permitted by the manufacturer. It will vary from car to car. For older vehicles, it is much messier, with the "Construction and Use" regulations determining it. There is also likely to be an upper limit REGARDLESS what the manufacturer states (as has been said here, because of having to fit things like tachographs) but I'm not aware of any passenger car that would be in danger of getting close to that.
You are also governed by DRIVER licensing requirements depending on when you took your test and which test(s) you've taken. These "trump" any technical requirements for the car, so it doesn't matter what the car can to, if you passed your test after 1997 and haven't taken the necessary additional test, you'll still get done - just under a different bit of legislation.
Avocet
Well-Known Member
As an aside, I'd be amazed of a RAV 4 really weighed 1275kg! Mrs. Avocet's X Trial is over 1500kg.
fisherman
Well-Known Member
Just realised my rig above was over the 3500 kg as well. Cripes!
Stork_III
Well-Known Member
If your license was issued prior to 1997, you are OK with over 3500kg train weight.
"You can drive vehicles up to 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) carrying no more than 8 passengers and
driver with trailer up to 750kg; trailer over 750kg if combined vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 3,500kg MAM;
Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers and a driver with trailer up to 750kg;
Vehicles between 3,500kg and 7,500kg carrying no more than 8 passengers and a driver with trailer over 750kg if combined
vehicle and trailer weight isn’t more than 8,250;
Vehicles with up to 16 passenger seats and a driver with trailer up to 750kg;
fisherman
Well-Known Member
Soooo.....I can tow a 6750 kg braked trailer with my Volvo S 60 (kerb weight 1500kg).......but presumably if in connection with my business I'll need a tacho. Can I have a pasty instead, don't like that forrin muck.
I find the legal info very difficult to decipher, and had not seen that bit. I think I would still be subject to manufacturer's recommended limit.
I find the legal info very difficult to decipher, and had not seen that bit. I think I would still be subject to manufacturer's recommended limit.
Bru
Well-Known Member
Erm, no not quite!
What you can drive on your licence isn't necessarily what's permitted under things like Construction and Use Regulations (or whatever they're called these days)
Firstly, your Volvo will have a manufacturer specified towing limit which will probably be no more than the kerbside mass or lower (it may be a little higher but increasingly towing limits are being specified at or below the generalised recommendation that a trailer should not exceed 90% to, at the most, 100% of the kerbside mass of the tow vehicle)
Secondly the trailer itself, if over 3500kg max gross mass, would require power brakes operated from the tow vehicle braking system, not overrun brakes. And that would be difficult to splice in to a modern car's braking system with all the ABS, traction control etc technology that is commonplace (even my van has ABS and a basic form of traction control!).