RANT WARNING! Re routing the waste pipe to miss keep tank...

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z1ppy, I can't see that installing a second pipe to discharge the toilet direct to sea is the answer without dealing with the holding tank problem as well. Yes it is desirable to have a direct discharge when you have problems with the holding tank but it is antisocial, not to mention illegal in some ports, to discharge toilet waste direct to sea. It's also extremely unpleasant in a crowded anchorage to witness somebody else's brown slick floating past
IMHO you have a simple blockage or macerator problem which should be easy/cheap to sort out. Not pleasant but I bet there's a fair few peeps on this forum who've been there, done it and got the t shirt on this particular problem, me included

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Mike,

i agree fully! I see the benefit of having the holding tank and as you say, when im swiming i dont want to see someones elses waste floating past!

it seems stupid not to have a switch over to pump out directly but i guess its a cost saving matter on the build.

the solution here is without doubt, fix the pump and solve the problem rather than bypass it with a quick fix!

guess what i will be doing this weekend!! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
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it seems stupid not to have a switch over to pump out directly but i guess its a cost saving matter on the build.

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It also avoids another through-hull, which some see as a good thing (but I agree, probably isn't the driving factor behind the manufacturers choice). We had the same setup on our F43 - the toilets just went to the tank, no option for direct output.

Rick
 
in theory you could use the same through deck as for the tank pump out and just join the pipe before it gets to the hull fitting.

place the diverter after the toilet but before the tank. i suspect this will lead to a lot of pipes and extra possibility for blockage!! not to mention finding somewhere to put it so it could be accessable!
 
Having gone through the thread, the one thing that concerns me is the leakage into the bilge. Leaving aside the fact that there really should have been a diverter valve, the tank should have a vent pipe that leads to the outside air through a breather in the hull side somewhere. If not, then the tank will expand like a balloon as you pump into it, with some fairly inevitable consequences.

Your tank should have four connections, three of them being 38mm (1.5") and one being 3/4". The big ones are: input from the bog, output to the macerator and output to the pump out connector on deck. The small one is the breather and should go out through the side of the hull as high as possible.

If the 3/4" one ends in the bilge, then the hose fell off at some point. My best guess is that the tank is full to bursting and the breather is partly blocked by, ahem, 'solids'. When you pump the bog, you're trying to push the contents into a full tank that can only leak contents out into the bilge, and then only slowly.

As for the macerator, where is it fitted? It should be below the top of the tank or it might not self prime properly. As others have said, chances are it is either a clogged blade, a shredded impellor or both. It ain't fun replacing it, so get a pump out, and rinse the tank repeatedly with fresh water to dislodge as much of the 'sediment' as possible. Then don breathing apparatus, open all windows and evacuate the surrounding pontoon before going in with the screwdrivers.

The best way to clear any residual smell in the bilges afterwards is to either sell the boat, or empty a bottle of pet deodoriser down there.
 
Been there, on a S34 , best solution change the macerator,
take the old one out in the open clear any blockages , / replace any bits & keep as a spare , trust me these things play up on all boats , the overflow running internal cannot be
correct , if your tank is full , with heads window open you should here water discharge via sink fitting above water line when you flush toilet , you need to check this out before you try to pump out tank because the air vent may be blocked ,
I suggest you phone sealine tech dpt , i have done this in the past & found them very helpfull , they even rang me 3 times over the following week checking if fault repeated itself.
 
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in theory you could use the same through deck as for the tank pump out and just join the pipe before it gets to the hull fitting.

place the diverter after the toilet but before the tank. i suspect this will lead to a lot of pipes and extra possibility for blockage!! not to mention finding somewhere to put it so it could be accessable!

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Yoy would need to route one output from the 3 way valve to the "direct" seacock outlet and the other to the holding tank.
It is not too difficult but would need a new hole in the boat. I have made this change before and you will not get a blockage when routed to "sea". I agree you have to find somewhere to mount the valve so it can be easily switched.
I actually used the Jabsco one.
 
z1ppy...PM sent
and to post the same info here....


I dont think its waste from the bog.
I had/have big problems with the float chamber for the shower and galley....yes for some reason on the "29" both the galley sink and shower go through a pump /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

the pump falls off the fitting in the chamber, hence no sink waste pumping overboard, chamber fills, overflows and fills bilge with some nice soapy water....and the float chamber is just in front of the holding tank

Like z1ppy i thought there was a leak from the holding tank.
the vent goes staight outside on the port side....i know that worked cos on one occasion i spotted liquid coming out in the marina when the then SWMBO had flushed /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
Maybe already mentioned but are you sure you are opening the seacock. Sounds like the pump is pumping and the build up of pressure on the 'out side' of the macerator is stopping it?

I'd try the following....

CLOSE THE WASTE SEACOCK.

Have plenty of old towels, a bucket and a hose pipe to hand.

Using a 'G' clamp type ligature to clamp the waste pipe between the pump and the seacock. Take the pipe off the seacock MAKING SURE YOU'VE ALREADY CLOSED THE SEACOCK!!!

Stick the end of the pipe into the bucket and cover bucket with a towel. Gently undo G clamp and see what happens? Hopefully nothing cause you've got the pipe higher than the holding tank. Start the pump, what happens?

If it empties then you have a dodgy/blocked seacock if nothing then do the following.

Move the G clamp to the pipe before the macerator. undo pipe from macerator and stick in bucket keeping the pipe low and cover bucket with towel. Gently undo G clamp. If water flows then it's your pump. If nothing happens the blockage is in your tank

If it's in the tank stick the nozzle of the hose into pipe and turn it on for a few seconds. This will hopefully dislodge the blockage. Make sure you add the G clamp to the pipe before removing the hose.

If you're tank is so full that you cant back flush as above then take out the level sensor on the top of the tank and using a bit of hose try siphoning some of the contents into a bucket. Now try back flushing...

When you have finally sorted the problem, run the hose using a high jet into the tank whilst wriggling it about in the tank and the pump running. This will help dislodge anything that may be lurking in the tank.

Good luck. I've had to do all the above myself before.
 
Wow, if ever there was a risky procedure suggested on a forum, this is it!

The HLB "exploding bog" post could be consigned to history, to be replaced by "that chap with the almost new SC29 that sprayed his interior furnishings with raw sewage"

dv.
 
(...wasn't meant to be sarcastic, I just think what you are suggesting will be hard on an SC29)

Not sure if it's exactly the same on the SC29, but on the S28, the holding tank is under the forward table/berth.

There is no valve or tap between it and the macerator.
The hoses are reinforced with steel wire - if you use G-clamps to compress them, at best they will be distorted and weakened, at worst, the wire will break and puncture the hose.
The macerator is mounted waaaayyy down at the bottom of the bilge.
The hoses are SHORT and not very flexible.

So: this idea of standing in the bilge and holding the hose in a bucket high enough not for the tank to empty instantly is a hard thing to do.

To say nothing of what would happen if starting the pump were to "dislodge" the blockage in an errrm dynamic manner.

My suggestion would be:

1.) Go to a pump out station, empty out as much as possible from the tank FIRST
2.) Shut inlet / outlet sea cocks
3.) Put plenty of old towels or absorbent mats in the bilge
3.) Remove inlet / output pipes from macerator, maybe plugging the hose with old chamois or cork plug or something and leaving in a bucket
4.) Fix or replace the macerator

dv.
 
1) Not all boats have pump out facility. Mine doesn't.
2) and 3) is what I said.
3) (the second one) Is what I said and you replied saying the pipes weren't long enough to go in bucket?
4) You are assuming it's the macerator
 
1) Not all boats have pump out facility. Mine doesn't.
SC29 does.

2) and 3) is what I said.
Cool.

3) (the second one) Is what I said and you replied saying the pipes weren't long enough to go in bucket?
They will go in a bucket, if the bucket is low down and close to the macerator. It's hard to hold it high enough to stop the tank emptying. Hence, empty the tank first.

4) You are assuming it's the macerator
I am. Based on his original description of the problem, the age of the boat, and bitter, personal, smelly experience, I have one beer token that says it is.

Key difference is that at no time am I suggesting running the pump with any of the pipes disconnected, covered bucket or not.

dv.
 
Ahem....
The pipes are not long enough for moving.
Even to the sea cock.
the macerator is above the tank by about 1 foot.
so provided there is not a lot of pressure in the tank it IS possible to remove the macerator without spillage....I've done it twice


and knowing the layout very well i still dont believe its bog waste
 
Excellent, something that has improved over the previous model, then!
In that case, the whole thing becomes much easier, in theory.

And no problems with the pump not self priming when mounted higher up?

dv.
 
To use your current skin fitting for both holding tank and direct out you'd need two of THESE

I think it would need to be setup like this...

Pipe from toilet to first T valve. Outlet from first T valve to holding tank. Outlet from first T valve to second T valve. Outlet from Holding tank to second T valve. Second T valve outlet to skin fitting.....

I don't know but I'd imagine you'd need a anti siphone device to stop water being pushed up the skin fitting out through the toilet?

waste.jpg
 
Yes i think it is better if macerator pump is about 1 foot above tank top. Then it doesn't have too far to pull when priming, but you can still change the pump if unluckily it fails with a full tank. Mine is done that way and I never have priming problems
 
Kev
Cant fault your sketch buy z1ppy will have serious problems trying to get those pipes and valves in place.
the heads is a sealed unit (obviously) and the holding tank is immediately outside the heads door under the floor panel. I cant recall actually seeing the pipe from the bog to the the tank....as its hidden behind bulkheads and plastic fittings.
then the macerator is fitted to a bulkhead behind the steps. there is little enough room to work with the existing set up without trying to add fixed connectors and additional pipes..

I will say this only once......(more)...

i dont believe its waste from the heads if the liquid is in the bilge under the steps/floor.
 
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